FertilityZone

I started a thread about this in the pub hon - you can delete if you wish ?

Im not sure if this is a good or bad thing reading the above..?

Obviously we want the highest sucess rate as poss but I didnt reallise the stats on babies that die ..

Whats everyone else's views on this ?

xx

There are a number of issues -

firstly this is a BBC report and given their recent track record in IVF reporting - I wouldn't believe any of thier stats !
"Some 40% of IVF babies are twins, but many are born prematurely and more than 100 die every year. "

According to the HFEA the figure is 30%. 100 babies die - but at what stage and what is that figure in relation to ? How many "natural " twins die ?? How many singletons die?

Is the next step to reduce all twin pregancies - as they pose higher risk & incur elevated cost. Will IVF clinics still implant two eggs - if the parent opt to go to a private hospital ?

This whole argument seems to be focusing on the cost to the country -
rather than looking at what is acheivable -
1 - Focus on improving IVF treatment to reduce the current failiure rate of 70%
2 - Improve pre & neo natal care to reduce the incidences of Mortality above.

Is seems very odd that in a country with a mature population, we are penalising those who want to have children. Will similar studies limit the Pregnancies available to smokers, High drinkers, disabled, Lower socio economic groups or the obese - given they all pose an increased risk -

this seems to be an attempt to massage the hospital figures rather than address the real issues...

No doubt given the reduced success rate that will result ( Number of live births per cycle) the ACUs will reduce their charges accordingly !!

think not

K

I was also wondering seeing as how you are aiming to have just 1 embryo transferred, whether they'd half the costs. I had 2 transferred and have a singleton. So if they had transferred just the one that didn't make it .....hmmm

They need to compare stats with natural twins and IVF twins to really see what difference this makes surely?

I agree with Kski - why penalise the very people who want to have a family and will nuture their children to their very best potential?


Caz xxx

Kski,

Very well put.

I agree that these reports are NOT a good reflection on the truth. These reports often fall on ignorant eyes and lead to nothing more than a false concern to panic. I agree that is all all about money and little thought is really on the people suffering from infertility.

But obviously the report succeeds in frightening ppl into thinking twins pose a risk factor and by quoting such statistics about the death rate .. well that is both unfair and not well explained.

Who is writing these reports? To they have any sound knowledge to be allowed to do so?

i quite agree with you kski & lisa. The authors of these articales are def. of questionable authority on the subject - the headline in one of the papers (Independent or Guardian, can't remember which) that caught my eye (and nearly caused me to cry!) was "Donor eggs to be rationed"..... the article then proceeded to talk about twins & limiting ET to just one embie from two, but made no mention whatsoever of donor eggs - so how misleading is that? At least get the headline right!
It also did go on to say that in cases where chances of success are considered to be "less good", 2 embies might still be an option but how on earth could such a policy be implemented in practice? Every couple will feel that they are deserving of having 2 put back in and clinics will still obviously want the best stats and be in favour of 2, so who would independently be making that massive decision?
The whole things sucks hugely and hasn't remotely been thought through by the sounds of it. Let's just hope it gets knocked on the head during the consultation stages.

I agree with all that is said above.

We are put under enough pressure to concieve as it is, without adding to it.

I take it this would only be done in this country? If so I think it would push more people to go abroad for thier treatment, at least it would be cheaper and you'd get a holiday out of it!!

Hi there,

I don't think it is just this country. I've been reading a thread by user Penguin (who I beleive lives in Iceland) and she was only allowed to put one embryo back (thankfully she got a BFP last week) for exactly this reason. So, it looks like we may be lucky in the UK as this directive isn't in palce yet.

I could be wrong about this - hopefully Penguin will log in soon and read this thread to confirm!

Jensqui x

report from the telegraph


Currently three-quarters of patients have two embryos transferred during treatment and 25 per cent of IVF births in the UK result in twins (NOTE THIS IS A MASSIVE DIFFERENCE FROM THE REPORT ABOVE ??). Patient groups yesterday pointed out that the main reason women request the transfer of more than one embryo is the refusal of most primary care trusts to fund a Government promise that all women under 40 should be entitled to three full cycles of treatment on the NHS. In Belgium, couples are entitled to up to six free cycles of IVF treatment on the condition that in women under 36 only one embryo is transferred. The Netherlands, Finland and Sweden have all moved towards single embryo transfer in recent years.


Some Interesting facts - Not Very nice but at least they have the info out in the public domain !

One in 80 women who give birth naturally have twins, while around 23 per cent of mothers who have IVF have twins. Around 3,600 IVF twins were born in the UK in 2004. Compared with single babies, twins are three times more likely to be stillborn, five times more likely to die soon after birth and four times more likely to develop cerebral palsy. Half are born prematurely and underweight (thought this is Obvious ) and identical twins have a significantly increased risk of congenital abnormalities. Mothers of twins are also at greater risk of miscarriage, pre-eclampsia, diabetes and heavy bleeding. They are twice as likely as the mothers of single babies to develop heart disease and around 10 times more likely to die from cardiovascular causes. Currently, clinics are free to implant up to two embryos per cycle in women under 40 years of age. For women over 40, they can implant three embryos if this is thought to be necessary.


K

I think this would be unfair...what with most of us having to pay for tx we should be allowed every possible sucess.....me for one would be chuffed to be pg with twins and not being able to get pg by any other means i would stop there

The full consultation about this is on the hfea website and makes an interesting read

http://www.hfea.gov.uk/en/483.html

I can see that reducing infant mortality is a public health issue but for those of us faced with pretty poor stats in the first place and the prospect or remortgaging our houses in the quest for a single baby I can't see how this move is in the individual patients interest.

I am very scared about the risks my babies face being twins but I know so many mums of singletons that have had very hairy times with premature births that having a single baby doesn't exempt you from the risks. I personnaly feel double blessed to be having twins and wouldn't want it any other way.

Does anyone know when this will come into force? Will it effect my treatment now? The amount of twin pregs that i have read about on these boards is minimal compared to singltons. I dont think its fair because i think it will just mean more treatment.

hopefully this will take a long while to come in.........i think i might go for it if we could get more goes on the nhs!!!

I think the consultations open for another few months , then the HFEA will issue 'guidance' - though whether this guidance will be compulsary or not remains to be decided. Your treatment shouldn't be affected in the next few months if your clinic are pro 2 embryo transfer -some clinics in the UK are already only putting one back in.

The people recommending the single embryo transfer approach do say it will only be acceptable if the department of health follow the NICE guidelines and fund 3 fresh (+3 Fet) IVFs per couple. But, the HFEA don't have much sway with the department of health so the guidelines may come into place without changes to funding which would not be good news.

bah!

Those reports worry me because it gives people who have no experience of ttc and all the problems involved an even more clouded view of it. The BBC seem to forget when they report on issues like IVF that there are people personally involved and it always seems one-sided. If people were naive about IVF etc they would get a very unfair view of IVF just based on that report. I know that personally because of my thyroid condition I have been told already that multiple births for me are not to be encouraged. If misguided acquaintances of mine who know what I'm ttc and how heard that they would jumping to all sorts of conclusions about it. I just think BBC should think before they report on it. I agree with all of the views above.

xxx Lorraine xxx

You have made many good and valid points and I agree with you all.

Jensqui is right, it isn't only Britain. These guidelines are at least being applied in Scandinavia as well. Many countries are trying to save some money by going this route. Sweden has national laws about only transferring one embryo in most cases (I think they subsidize the following FET instead) . Here in Iceland they pressure for single embryo transfers, for example they didn't allow me to have double transfer (even though I begged for it and nothing special indicates personal risks in my case). They thought my chances for twins were too high considering that I'm young and the embryos were strong. That's why we didn't get what we wanted.

They simply want to reduce twin births at a national level. Here they haven't fine tuned this policy as we didn't pay any less than others who got double transfer! If our single embryo hadn't stuck then we would have to pay full price for FET. I think that's ridiculous and really unfair for those of us young and "too healthy and likely to get twins"! Actually it's unfair in the first place that the choice is not ours.

Just wish the media would handle this issue differently. I think they are too often using brainwashing tactics to support prejudice in this matter.

I agree and expecially kar as it is very unfair to reduce the transfer to one as myself can only rely on IVF to get pregnant and I would be over the moon if we had twins. I personally think this should be upto us on whether we want one or two embies as we are aware of the risks. But thats my view.
xx