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  • "coxyloxy" started this thread

Posts: 307

Reg: May 21st 2010

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1

Thursday, December 30th 2010, 3:32pm

Second BFN for same reason as first - what shall I do now?

Hi everyone

I have just had my second BFN after IVF and am feeling really lost and confused about what to do next. I am hoping that someone reading this might have been in a similar position and can shed any light about best way forward.

Background

Got 1 healthy 3 year old son (conceived very easily).

Been TTC for 2.5 years: I don't ovulate on my own. When I do ovulate with drugs I do't get pg and have a short (8 day) luteal phase. Poor follicle quality??

Quick history:

IVF round 1 (July 2010): 11 eggs collected; 10 fertilised. Day 2: all 2-4 cells (grade 1/2). Day 3: 3 x 5 cells, 3 x 6 cells (grades 1 and 2). Decision made to go to blast - day 5 got dreaded call that all had arrested on day 3 -nothing to transfer

IVF round 2 (Dec 10): 15 eggs collected; 9 fertilised. Day 2: all 2-4 cells (grade 1/2). Day 3: 1 x 9 cells, 1 x 7 cells, 4 x 6 cells (all grades 1 and 2). Due to what happened in round 1, decision made to put 9 and 7 cell back in on day 3. Rest cultured to blast but was told they had all arrested on day 3 (and so 2 that were transferred probably suffered same fate inside me).

I now need to decide what to do. There isn't any point in continuing doing the same thing as we are just haemorraging money.

Options I am contemplating:

(1) cycle at ARGC. Bit reluctant as treatment so aggressive there, but results speak for themselves. Also not sure because they tend to specialise in immunology, repetitive miscarriages etc - I don't have this problem.

(2) cycle at CRGH - have an initial appointment coming up,but hesitant as results aren't as good as ARGC,

(3) Go down a totally different track and try 6 months of acupuncture and Chinese herbs. Bit sceptical about this, and worried about wasting time...

Does anyone have any words of wisdom for me - I am feeling so lost and confused about what to do for the best

Thanks so much for reading :smile:
TTC since June 2009
clomid, tamoxifen, Gonal-F - BFN
July 10 IVF, Dec 10 IVF: Lister BFN (embryos all arrested after day 3)
Jan 11 - started Chinese herbs & acupuncture
Jul/Aug 11 - tamoxifen - BFN
Aug/Sep 11 - tamoxifen - BFN
Sept 11 - IUI - BFN


Chicago immune tests: CD3 = 87.7; CD19+CD5 = 12
Initial ARGC appointment Jan 2012
Jan 2012 - SHOCK NATURAL BFP!!!
EDD: 19 September 2012 XXX

gilly117

Superstar

Posts: 3,924

Reg: Jun 27th 2012

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2

Thursday, December 30th 2010, 3:40pm

coxyloxy

i really dont know what to advise but just want to say im sorry for all you have been through i totally understand your feeling of being lost and confused someone im sure will be along soon who might be able to advise you on the clinics you have mentioned

take care


xxx

    United Kingdom

Posts: 3,648

Reg: Jul 2nd 2009

Location: Suffolk

Children: Beautiful Jessica Mae x Holly and Elliot!

Thanks: 142 / 5

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Thursday, December 30th 2010, 3:48pm

Oh goodness...so sorry to hear your news. I can't imagine how you are feeling right now but please do give yourselves a little more time before making any decisions. There is no need to rush into anything right now (although I know the temptation is to do just that). Is there anything your clinic things may be an issue with the fact that all the embries arrested on Day 3? My Consultant advised a Day 2 transfer and not to worry about going to blastocyst as he didn't quite believe it was a good thing....he admitted to be old fashioned but he says there is no evidence to suggest blasts have a better chance than a Day 2 embie put back.

Anyway.....I digress......I don't really know what to suggest really as I am like you. As long as I have a plan then I can cope with what happens inbetween. The thought of not having a plan is quite scarey.

As I say, I would take some time to think things through and recover first. Are you able to speak with your clinic about what they think may be the issue?
3 X ICSI
Jessica Mae Duffety born sleeping on 9 January 2011 (21+2) - TS and HLHS
Holly and Elliot Duffety born on 16 October 2011 (25+6)
Natural Surprise - Matthew Evan Duffety born sleeping on 11 October 2013 (15+5)

Posts: 987

Reg: Oct 19th 2009

Location: london

Thanks: 4 / 1

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4

Thursday, December 30th 2010, 7:30pm

Hi Coxy loxy,

Am so sorry to be reading this - sending you a big hug....

your first cycle sounds a bit like mine (i also have PCO but no sympton) we got 11 embies and all but 2 stopped progressing after day 3..... did your follies take ages to grow? mine didn't do much for the first week, i was stimming for 17 days in total and by the time i was ready for the trigger shot there were only 3 big ones and lots of little ones, they got 15 eggs in total which i was over the moon about, but it turns out they were not mature enough even though they did fertilize, so they never developed properly. Could it be that yours weren't ready ?

for my next cycle they are giving me the highest dose to start with (which they were worried about the first time as PCO) but monitoring me closely, they are hoping the main follies will then start growing from the beginning and there will be more that are fully mature by day 14 rather than leaving to the last possible date to give the trigger shot.

i am on the short protocol as well, not sure if that makes a difference.... am doing in at The Bridge, london Bridge and really like them

i looked into ARGC but in adition to the costs it looks so full on that it would stress me out so much as i would find it so hard with work & appts - you have to go in 2-3 times a day at times.... not sure that it is for me.

hope you get some good advice here, my diary is on the male factors bit if you want to see how the next cycle works, starting stimms next week!
xxx
Anna
2nd ICIS Jan 2011 :BFP:

  • "coxyloxy" started this thread

Posts: 307

Reg: May 21st 2010

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5

Thursday, December 30th 2010, 7:54pm

Ah thanks guys - appreciate you taking the time to reply - it means a lot in these desperate times!

I think my lack of a plan is really whats freaking me out at the moment ... and realisation that something has to change... I need to make the follow up appoinment when the clinic opens next week...

Anna: thanks for details of your last cycle ... I was in the October group before I dropped out early .... don't know if the eggs were not mature enough, too mature, whether I have dodgy eggs, whether DH has dodgy sperm, bad luck, wrong protocol - my head is spinning from it all. In retrospect it was an error doing the same protocol with same drugs twice -should have done something differently .... I have PCOS (syndrome but no cysts - but then all my blood results always come back normal so God knows what thats all about). Grrrr
Good luck honey anyway - I will be following your progress in January and am rooting for you.... If it hasn't worked for me by June I'm whisking myself off to Ibiza ... no point living the life of a nun forever! :0)

Thanks again everyone x lurve
TTC since June 2009
clomid, tamoxifen, Gonal-F - BFN
July 10 IVF, Dec 10 IVF: Lister BFN (embryos all arrested after day 3)
Jan 11 - started Chinese herbs & acupuncture
Jul/Aug 11 - tamoxifen - BFN
Aug/Sep 11 - tamoxifen - BFN
Sept 11 - IUI - BFN


Chicago immune tests: CD3 = 87.7; CD19+CD5 = 12
Initial ARGC appointment Jan 2012
Jan 2012 - SHOCK NATURAL BFP!!!
EDD: 19 September 2012 XXX

taxihome

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    United Kingdom

Posts: 2,710

Thanks: 63 / 0

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6

Thursday, December 30th 2010, 8:29pm

My lovely you have been on a tough road havent you.
I wish I knew what to advise you but sadly I do not. I think things will be clearer for you after your follow up.
My heart goes out to you Hon & I am so very sorry for all you have been through.
xxx

[zx071]
2 x man boys -MC,Ectopic IVF x 4 Natural BFP/Born sleeping 22/WksRIP LO
Jan/11:ICSI:BFP: bab21 [zx115] Our dream has finally come true
MY DIARY

  • "coxyloxy" started this thread

Posts: 307

Reg: May 21st 2010

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7

Friday, December 31st 2010, 4:28pm

Thanks Taxihome...

Reading your signature, it sounds like you've been through the mill too - its not fair, thats all I can say. Good luck for your Jan treatment - I will be checking on how you're doing and have everything crossed for a great start to the new year for you x : D
TTC since June 2009
clomid, tamoxifen, Gonal-F - BFN
July 10 IVF, Dec 10 IVF: Lister BFN (embryos all arrested after day 3)
Jan 11 - started Chinese herbs & acupuncture
Jul/Aug 11 - tamoxifen - BFN
Aug/Sep 11 - tamoxifen - BFN
Sept 11 - IUI - BFN


Chicago immune tests: CD3 = 87.7; CD19+CD5 = 12
Initial ARGC appointment Jan 2012
Jan 2012 - SHOCK NATURAL BFP!!!
EDD: 19 September 2012 XXX

chatterbox

Megastar

Posts: 8,584

Reg: Nov 30th 2007

Children: Two heaven sent miracles!

Thanks: 36 / 16

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8

Friday, December 31st 2010, 4:41pm

Hi hun

Just because your embryos fail before day 5 it doesn't mean that they will obviously do the same inside you. None of my remaining embryos have ever made it, but I've managed bfp's.

Although the ARGC and CARE specialise in immune issues they also look into recurrent implantation problems and these can be immune based too (a DQ alpha match with your DH for example could cause implantation issues).

I would highly recommend full testing if you think that things need to change. I know they're expensive tests but you will either rule out any underlying issues and know it may just be down to bad luck. Or you will unearth something that can be treated and save yourself the heartache and the cost of repeated tx's. I know I've been there, and so wish I'd looked into other options/reasons sooner.

Thinking of you
xxx

Me 40 DH 35 TTC 10yr
peritoneal mesothelioma, cystectomy 97 & 00
peritonectomy, lost both tubes & most of left ovary Aug 07


Dec 07 BFP b/ov m/c 9.6wk
July 08 BFN
Dec 08 BFP b/ov m/c 9.6wk

July 09 BFN
Nov 09 BFP 2 x sacs 1 b/o 1 no hrtbt m/c 9.2wk
May10 BFP at 8+4 m/mc @10wk scan ERPC

Found: High NK cells, DQ Alpha match, LAD neg & PAI-1 pos...

NOV 2010 - Immune IVF at CARE Manchester
:BFP: [zx076] :girl: born 25/8/11

OCT 2012 - Immune IVF at CARE Manchester
:BFP: [zx076] :boy: born 24/6/13




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