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  • "caitriona" started this thread

Posts: 7

Reg: Jun 3rd 2010

Location: Dublin, Ireland

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1

Sunday, August 22nd 2010, 4:15pm

HELP please understanding chicago results level 2

Hello and thanks for all help in advance
.
I've had 6 miscarriages in 2 years and am upset ansd frustrated. Please help me understand if there are issues. My main concern is between me and hubby ...



DQ alpha mine: 0201, 0501 or previously 2, 4.1

Husband: 0102, 0303

Does this mean that we are not a match and I don't need LIT?


My LAD is weak positive
Flowcytometry * WEAK POSITIVE = NEGATIVE
[T-cells] IgM+ 1.0 %
[T-cells] IgG+ 35.4 %
[B-cells] IgM+ 9.1 %
[B-cells] IgG+ 98.9 %

What does this mean?


Also my Th1 TH2
TNF-a:IL-10 (CD3+CD4+) * 31.2 Ratio 13.2 - 30.6
IFN-g:IL-10 (CD3+CD4+) * 22.2 Ratio 5.8 - 20.5


NK Assay (% Killed) Panel
Description
50:1 16.1 % 10 - 40
25:1 10.1 % 5 - 30
12.5:1 7.3 % 3 - 20
IgG conc 12.5 50:1 ** 20.4 %
IgG conc 12.5 25:1 ** 18.9 %
IgG conc 6.25 50:1 ** 14.4 %
IgG conc 6.25 25:1 ** 15.9 %
% CD3 82.6 % 60 - 85
% CD19 2.9 % 2 - 12
% CD56 * 13.7 % 2 - 12
% of CD19+ cells,CD5+ * 10.3 % 5 - 10

Thanks again for any help

What would reccommend me to do next???

Caitriona

Posts: 3,164

Reg: Feb 16th 2009

Children: Yes please

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2

Sunday, August 22nd 2010, 8:48pm

What did your consultant advise?


3 IUI and 5 IVF :BFN:
What's the future?
MY DIARY


High NK and high PAI-1
On Metformin & Immune Cycle

Posts: 329

Reg: Mar 16th 2008

Location: uk

Children: CARE Notts

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3

Monday, August 23rd 2010, 9:55am

Hi caitriona,
am so very sorry for your mc's.

Your b cells igG is 98.9 and anything over 50 is really good and as you have a weak positive lad that's good too. The th1 and th2 results are suppose to be ok if uner 30. Am not sure about the other results but you could pop on to fertility friends and look under the investigations and immune forum/section where there is a lady called 'Agate' who is very good at interpreting level 2 results.
Best wishes
melXXX.

  • "caitriona" started this thread

Posts: 7

Reg: Jun 3rd 2010

Location: Dublin, Ireland

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4

Monday, August 23rd 2010, 11:18am

results and treatment

My consultatnt didn't answer about the DQ alpha testing at all as it's not done in Ireland- he said call DR Gorky. I just want to know if I need to or if it would help. it's just that's what's been in the back of mind during all of this and I'd love some direction on this.
He recommended Humira for TNF alpha and clexane and steroids.
Thanks , Caitriona

  • "caitriona" started this thread

Posts: 7

Reg: Jun 3rd 2010

Location: Dublin, Ireland

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5

Monday, August 23rd 2010, 11:18am

Thanks for your help Mel. xx

BraveGirl

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  • "BraveGirl" is no longer a member of FZ

Posts: 4,378

Reg: Feb 15th 2008

Location: Wakefield

Children: One on the way.

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6

Monday, August 23rd 2010, 11:32am

hi catriona

you really need to buy this book:

book

From what I can tell I would note the following -

You do not have a DQ alpha match and do not need LIT. I do have a match and have not been advised to have LIT anyway. I was treated with other drugs which are to stop the immune flare that occurs when there is a match baby.

Your TH1 and TH2 are slightly raised. This is a type of white blood cell that is within the immune system and can prevent implantation and cause clotting and cause miscarriage. Mine is alsmost the same as yours, 31.7 I think and for both of these I was prescribed intralipids. I had one on day 4 of ovarian stimulation and one when I got my BFP and am having another at 8 weeks (although I had to fight for this as they dont think I really need it).

Your NK assay I would say is the most marked issue. Your initial number of 16.1 appears to be within range but Dr Beers (see his book) says at anything over 15 they have killing pwoers. In addition each time the number should halve. So you should have 25:1 of 8 and 12.5:1 of 4. As you dont this shows that they have strong killing power. I would not surprised if this is your main issue. I would expect you to be given steroids and clexane to combat this.

Your CD19 and CD5 is slightly up but its negligible. for mine I was given extra progesterone support and the steroids.

I would personally not be keen on the humira at all. your levels are NOT high enough plus humira can cause a TH1 flare and you could be worse off. for those levels intralipids would bring them down enough, they are almost identical to mine.
IVF 1 :BFP: baby5 in heaven 6 weeks
IVF 5 :BFP: Immune protocol Care Sheffield
Oscar Miles arrived 15 April 2011 weighing 6lbs 14oz
My Diary

  • "caitriona" started this thread

Posts: 7

Reg: Jun 3rd 2010

Location: Dublin, Ireland

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7

Monday, August 23rd 2010, 11:56am

thanks bravegirl

Thanks Bravegirl for your help

I have the book but still found it difficult to interpret results! I've been to the Sims immunology consultant and still had all these questions. I find it so difficult to nagivate all this info and sometimes dont know what to do. I see him again soon.

I understand what you said re Humira but I started one injection last week- am due another in a week and dont know ...
I never took even a paracetamol before all this!

Thanks for your answer re DQ alpha_ thats really put my mind at ease..
xx C

  • "caitriona" started this thread

Posts: 7

Reg: Jun 3rd 2010

Location: Dublin, Ireland

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8

Monday, August 23rd 2010, 12:00pm

PS just read your diary- Congrats on your pregnancy. Really hope all is well and good luck,xx

BraveGirl

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  • "BraveGirl" is no longer a member of FZ

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Monday, August 23rd 2010, 12:54pm

hope things work out well for your too, I believe in immune treatments and there are loads of ladies on here who have done well on it.

are they going to re-test your TH1 after the Humira before you get pregnant again (you dont say if you need IVF)?
IVF 1 :BFP: baby5 in heaven 6 weeks
IVF 5 :BFP: Immune protocol Care Sheffield
Oscar Miles arrived 15 April 2011 weighing 6lbs 14oz
My Diary

  • "caitriona" started this thread

Posts: 7

Reg: Jun 3rd 2010

Location: Dublin, Ireland

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Monday, August 23rd 2010, 1:37pm

I dont know what the re test will be. Is it good idea to retest TH1- I assumed it would only be TNF alpha?
I've never had IVF- I seem to be able to conceive naturally no problem- it's maintaining them is the problem.

BraveGirl

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  • "BraveGirl" is no longer a member of FZ

Posts: 4,378

Reg: Feb 15th 2008

Location: Wakefield

Children: One on the way.

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11

Monday, August 23rd 2010, 1:45pm

sorry th1 is just another name for the TNF, I meant will they re-test TNF before you try to conceive?
IVF 1 :BFP: baby5 in heaven 6 weeks
IVF 5 :BFP: Immune protocol Care Sheffield
Oscar Miles arrived 15 April 2011 weighing 6lbs 14oz
My Diary

Posts: 3,164

Reg: Feb 16th 2009

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Monday, August 23rd 2010, 5:38pm

Hun, didn't realise to start with. We are both at sims. The consultant did run through my results and said all ok other thank the high nk. Inalso got them to put it in writing. Bit disappointed if they didn't give you more info! Although bg is very informed of the subject, so she can answer better than me.

Good luck with you next steps and keep in touch! Sam x


3 IUI and 5 IVF :BFN:
What's the future?
MY DIARY


High NK and high PAI-1
On Metformin & Immune Cycle

deedee1

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Reg: May 23rd 2008

Location: Cloud cuckooland

Children: 1 beautiful daughter

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13

Monday, August 23rd 2010, 5:54pm

Hi catriona,

We've already corresponded on this. I know that most places prescribe Humira for TNF issues. I know very little about it but I think Ruthie had that issue and was given Humira by ARGC. I'm not sure what her levels were but I'm sure she wouldn't mind you having a read through her diary and you could compare yours and hers.

Different clinics have different acceptable levels of NK cells and Sims say anything under 15% is ok, so you're only marginally above that. I was 33% and was treated with Clexane, steroids and Intralipids. My levels only got down to your levels at about 10 weeks pregnant. Unfortunately, I miscarried at 12 weeks but I believe the problem to be chromosonal/stress related (hubbie had a heart attack the previous week) rather than immune related.

As BG said, Intralipids seems to be a catch all for many immune issues so it would do you no harm to take it - can only help. If you ask Dr Omar about it, he will have no problem giving it to you. In fact he told me I was addicted to the stuff!!! But I don't care, if it helped get me this far, then call me a junkie :snigger: . They costs E260 an infusion.

You can get your bloods retested after whatever protocol you opt for - it costs E400 with Sims for a retest.

You are in good hands with Sims, and Omar is great - any questions you feel weren't answered last time, have them ready for your next meeting. He will do his best to answer them to your satisfaction. I found him very helpful.

Good luck!

Posts: 3,164

Reg: Feb 16th 2009

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Monday, August 23rd 2010, 6:02pm

For comparison I have nk of slightly over 18 and will be having intralipids, clexane and prednisalone.

I'm with dee. Have a word with dr Omar. I've only spoken once, but he went through the results.

Good luck, sam x


3 IUI and 5 IVF :BFN:
What's the future?
MY DIARY


High NK and high PAI-1
On Metformin & Immune Cycle

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Sammy1" (Aug 23rd 2010, 6:03pm)


deedee1

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Reg: May 23rd 2008

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Monday, August 23rd 2010, 6:18pm

Actually Catriona,

I think I might know why you haven't been prescribed Intralipids. Look at your IGg levels - your NK cykoticity raises when Ivig is introduced. It is assumed that your body will react the same way to intralipds, so thats definitely a question to ask Omar.

I think the way it works - your body has a killing power of 16%. Not sure what that exact figure means, but basically most (normal, sorry!!) people have killing power of 15% or less. Yours are slightly raised. If you look at, say, my set of results, which you'll find in the immune section posts, mine are 33%. But if you look at my IGg results my % goes down to e.g 23% (can't remember exact figure), But it goes down, which means Ivig or Intralipids work for me. Yours go up, which I think could mean that Ivig or Intralipid may do more harm than good.

I am no expert and there are much more knowledgeable people than me on here so maybe they would be able to shed more light on it. If it was me, it'd be one of my first questions for Omar - hope I'm making sense - only just about grasp it myself.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "deedee1" (Aug 23rd 2010, 6:19pm)


Posts: 3,164

Reg: Feb 16th 2009

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Monday, August 23rd 2010, 6:25pm

Again I'm with dee. I can't remember my actual results for cykot', but mine also went up with ivig (but down with intralipids).... Dr Omar explained this to me. Hence I will not be having ivig. Good luck with the consultation! X


3 IUI and 5 IVF :BFN:
What's the future?
MY DIARY


High NK and high PAI-1
On Metformin & Immune Cycle

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