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Melly

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  • "Melly" started this thread

Posts: 70

Reg: Sep 29th 2009

Location: Hertfordshire

Children: Our time will come...

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Thursday, May 27th 2010, 9:39am

Really need help and advice...

I don't even know where to begin... My husband is 28 with sperm count of 1 million. NHS would not fund us for IVF, we have paid out for 3 failed cycles. Because i had poor response after the first cycle i had a blood test which showed my AMH level to be 7.2, and told i will go through the menopause early (i am 29). We usually retrieve 7-9 eggs with max of 450 Gonel F, 3-6 fertilize then usually have 2 left for day 2 or day 3 transfer. A doctor who was standing in at our clinic the other month was honest with us and said that from his opinion and for our individual case it would take us 6 cycles for it to work. We were upset, but if it was to take 6 goes then thats what we would do. Yesterday we had our follow up consultation for our 3rd failed cycle. The doctor we saw said that we now need to use an egg donor. I'm devastated. And don't understand why last month the other doctor said 6? Is there still a chance? I don't want to or feel ready to give up hope yet. Could they say this for their clinic success rates??! I know my AMH is low, but it should be between 5 and 15 right? So i am still just in there?? I'm so confused, upset and sad. I just don't understand. This all seems so sudden and so final?! Does anyone have any success with AMH of 7.2? I think i would like to go see someone for a second opinion, but i'm scared of a clinic just wanting our money, what we have left of it. I'm so upset that the NHS will not fund us too. Please please help me, any advice would be a great help x

Me 30 and DH 29
TTC - 3 years
Low Sperm - 1 million
Low AMH Results - 7.2
Long Protocol ICSI Nov 09 - 1 embie transfered - BFN :sadface: (no frosties)
Short Protocol ICSI Jan 10 - 2 embies transfered - BFN :sadface: (no frosties)
Short Protocol ICSI May 10 - 2 embies transfered - BFN :sadface: (no frosties)
Immunology testing Jul 10 - High NK cells :sadface:
Humira injection for NK cells Aug 10 xfingers
Shock natural BFP Feb 11
biggrin2 Due Date 13th Oct 11 biggrin2

Eeyore

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    United Kingdom

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Reg: Sep 27th 2005

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Thursday, May 27th 2010, 9:54am

Hi Melly

I've asked the IVF mods to come over and have a look at your post, but in the meantime, do you know if your AMH result was pmol/l or ng/ml? AMH is reported using two different measurements - pmol/l or ng/ml. I believe that the ng/ml measurement is mainly used in the US. You need to divide a result by 7.14 to get the ng/ml level and a result of 5 or above is considered as 'normal' on the pmol/l scale

There is LOADS of information in this post here, which I hope helps
INFO: A ROUGH GUIDE TO INITIAL FERTILITY TESTS

Melly

Newbie

  • "Melly" started this thread

Posts: 70

Reg: Sep 29th 2009

Location: Hertfordshire

Children: Our time will come...

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Thursday, May 27th 2010, 11:19am

Thank you so much Eeyore, it all gets so confusing doesn't it!? I am waiting for my clinic to phone me back and i will ask them which measurement my AMH was. It was done in the UK so i imagine it might be the pmol/l measurement?? There was lots of helpful info on the post too, thank you so much for your help, it really does mean alot xxx

Me 30 and DH 29
TTC - 3 years
Low Sperm - 1 million
Low AMH Results - 7.2
Long Protocol ICSI Nov 09 - 1 embie transfered - BFN :sadface: (no frosties)
Short Protocol ICSI Jan 10 - 2 embies transfered - BFN :sadface: (no frosties)
Short Protocol ICSI May 10 - 2 embies transfered - BFN :sadface: (no frosties)
Immunology testing Jul 10 - High NK cells :sadface:
Humira injection for NK cells Aug 10 xfingers
Shock natural BFP Feb 11
biggrin2 Due Date 13th Oct 11 biggrin2

BraveGirl

Superstar

  • "BraveGirl" is no longer a member of FZ

Posts: 4,378

Reg: Feb 15th 2008

Location: Wakefield

Children: One on the way.

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4

Thursday, May 27th 2010, 11:46am

Hi hon I am so sorry to hear about your failed cycles.

I just wanted to ask if you have been tested fully for immune issues? The reason I mention it is because you seem to have a very similar response to me. I have had 3 cycles and my results were as follows:

cycle 1 (long protocol) menopur
7 eggs
5 ferts
2 embies for 2 day transfer (no frosties)
BFP - miscarriage 7 weeks

cycle 2 (short protocol) puregon
5 eggs
4 ferts
4 blastos
2 embies for day 5 transfer (no frosties)
BFN

Cycle 3 (short protocol) pergoveris
8 eggs
6 ferts
2 embies day 3 transfer
2 frosties

so as you can see I never get many eggs, now this may be due to your AMH or it may be due to other reasons. Can you get Dr Beers Is you body baby friendly? book and have a read or check out the immunology threads.

Your AMH may be low (mine is not its 17.4) but you are getting the same results egg-wise so I would not give up yet. Can you get a second opinion at a clinic like Care who are cutting edge?
IVF 1 :BFP: baby5 in heaven 6 weeks
IVF 5 :BFP: Immune protocol Care Sheffield
Oscar Miles arrived 15 April 2011 weighing 6lbs 14oz
My Diary

Eeyore

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    United Kingdom

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Reg: Sep 27th 2005

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5

Thursday, May 27th 2010, 11:54am

If the clinic advise that your result is 7.2 pmol/l then it is a good level, so let's see what they say, fingers crossed

Have a look at the table in the thread I posted above, or on this link HERE



Quoted

you will see that the UK guide is;

pmol/l
< 1.0
Negligible responses to ovulation drugs.
Treatment with own eggs rarely recommended

1.0-4.9
Reduced responses to ovulation drugs.Expected yields of 1 to 6 eggs (normal average = 10 eggs)

5.0-19.9

A normal response to drugs expected
Low risk of ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome
Low risk of cycle cancellation
Good pregnancy potential

> 20

High responses to ovulation drugs expected
risk of ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome
high pregnancy potential


Posts: 3,147

Reg: Jul 3rd 2008

Location: South West

Children: 2 beautiful twin daughters :)

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6

Thursday, May 27th 2010, 12:35pm

Hi Melly,

I'm so sorry to hear about your situation hun. It does seem really odd that you've been told 2 different things. From Eeyore's post above it doesn't look like your AMH is particularly low, which makes it all the more confusing - I do know of at least one twin mamma on here who had a very low AMH (2 ish if I remember rightly) and obviously had a successful cycle without use of a donor.

I think you'd be really wise to seek a second opinion from another clinic and as BG says, maybe look into immune issues too. I know what you mean about being scared that the clinics only want your money or are refusing you because of their success rates- BUT a good clinic shouldn't do that. Have a look through some of the clinic threads and do some research.

I really do wish you lots of luck, you don't have an impossible dream so it's well worth the fight :xxx3:


Moonshine



Posts: 3,164

Reg: Feb 16th 2009

Children: Yes please

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7

Friday, May 28th 2010, 2:17pm

Hi hun, what grade are your embies normally? If they seem ok, then why not try again and rule out all other potential causes. There are a couple of things you can consider. 1) look at BGs post and decide if you feel immunology testing might be an answer. 2) Some ladies have luteal phase issues, so perhaps review your progesterone support (you might need bloods for this/ routine bloods after ET) etc. 3) what's your lining like? I understand there are meds to help this. 4) You could also consider CGH Array. This is where as the embryo divides initially it leaves a waste product which matches the chromosomes of the embryo. This can be analysed to ensure only chromosically normal eggs are replaced. As eggs age the number with chromosome problems increases. Don't get concerned, this may not apply to you.

It's worth talking to a consultant who can analyse each and every component part of your protocol to see where any issues may lie. This might include more tests such as BG advised. If you would like to try again with your own eggs, there are options hun. If the embryos seem to divide etc and look good, then perhaps try one or more of the above first (I would say CGH is a last type of treatment, essentially looking at embryo quality of such).

I know where you are though hun as I have 3 under my belt and bled early every time. I have had more tests including the Chicagos, and am going to go for another cycle in July. I am considering immunology a cycle or two, and if I feel I need it too, CGH and Donors are still options. This is so hard to take in and I have had a year off of treatment. I did this for financial reasons, but it has proved to be great in giving me time to get myself ready and to have tests. I really hope you get some answers hun. Consider a second opinion too. Where are you? I have heard ARGC and CARE Nott are good clinics (CARE does immunology and CGH).

Long way to say, I think there is hope still. xx


3 IUI and 5 IVF :BFN:
What's the future?
MY DIARY


High NK and high PAI-1
On Metformin & Immune Cycle

Melly

Newbie

  • "Melly" started this thread

Posts: 70

Reg: Sep 29th 2009

Location: Hertfordshire

Children: Our time will come...

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8

Saturday, May 29th 2010, 11:15am

Thank you so so much bravegirl... It does look like we have been very similar with our previous cycles. I've had a read through your diary and it was a great help. I phoned CARE and spoke to a lovely lady and I've now sent a referral e-mail to the clinic, so waiting to hear back and book a consultation with them, she did mention there are no spaces till beginning of August which seems so far away :sadface: But hopefully it will come by quickly. I've also ordered Dr Beers 'is my body baby friendly'. So waiting for that to arrive too!

Hi Eeyore... I spoke to my clinic and yes it definitely is 7.2 pmol/l. And looking at that table you posted i'm not as bad as i thought?? So i'm very confused as to why they have given up on my eggs?

Hello Moonshine... Thank you! That gives me hope that it could work for me then! It just all gets so confusing, I'm definitely going to look into immune issues and going to go to CARE Nottingham, i want to know i've done everything i can before going down the donor route.

Sammy1... Thank you so much for your advise! First cycle we collected 6 eggs, 2 fertilized and only 1 was left for day 2 transfer - this was grade 3 :sadface: but the first time i had long protocol and not a very high dosage of Gonel F, so i think that could of been the reason for poor response and egg quality. Second cycle 6 eggs were collected, 5 fertilized, i had 2 put back on day 3 transfer and they we graded 1-2. They left 1 to go to blasto but it wasn't good enough to freeze. Third cycle we collected 7 eggs, 3 fertilized, i had 2 put back on day 3 transfer and they were graded 1-2. 1 was left to go to blasto but again it wasn't good enough to freeze. The one thing i do know is that on the last cycle although the eggs were grade 1-2 when they were transfered on day 3 they were 4 cells and they should be between 6-8 cells on day 3. I don't know the exact details of my womb lining, but they always say that it is great. When i have the embryo's put back i usually get REALLY sore boobs for a few days, then this suddenly goes away. I never bleed before OTD. I'm going to have every single blood test and any other test i can, see if anything comes back and then try again. Looking at all the clinics i think the best place to go is to see Dr Ndukwe at CARE Nottingham. I've written down all the tests you mentioned so i can ask about all of these. Thank you so so much for all your advise hun x

Yesterday i went to see a counsellor that was free and part of the treatment from my clinic. I was more upset when i left than before i went in. She seemed to focus on the point of having a donor, i presume this is because she had the information about my treatment and what my clinic said the next route was. I said i'm not ready for that route yet and wanted to have a second opinion and immunology tests. She said the doctor who had mentioned these tests to me sounded like he was dangling a carrot in front of me! When i left she gave me a sheet to read, i got in the car and looked at it, it read 'how to tell your child they were conceived from a donor' :bawl: i'm frustrated that that people aren't listening to me and i feel i'm being pushed to the next step already. I feel like i'm banging my head against a brick wall. I'm just so so glad i found this site and you lovely ladies, your the only ones that truly understand and listen to me. I'm so sorry to read about everything everyone has been through and i pray we all get there soon. Thank you so so much for all of your kind words, support, suggestions and ideas. I can't tell you how much it means to me xxx

Me 30 and DH 29
TTC - 3 years
Low Sperm - 1 million
Low AMH Results - 7.2
Long Protocol ICSI Nov 09 - 1 embie transfered - BFN :sadface: (no frosties)
Short Protocol ICSI Jan 10 - 2 embies transfered - BFN :sadface: (no frosties)
Short Protocol ICSI May 10 - 2 embies transfered - BFN :sadface: (no frosties)
Immunology testing Jul 10 - High NK cells :sadface:
Humira injection for NK cells Aug 10 xfingers
Shock natural BFP Feb 11
biggrin2 Due Date 13th Oct 11 biggrin2




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