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MrsST

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1

Wednesday, December 9th 2009, 5:57pm

FSH 74 - 5.5!?!?!?!

Evening ladies,

Well where do i start!

I had a fsh test done last month where the result was a massive 74 with LH being 64. My FS basically said donor egg would be the only option :bawl: They said i was in the menopause despite the fact that i do not have any other menopausal symptoms, no hot flashes ets.

So i had resigned myself to the fact that at 35 my eggs were scrambled and the only option i had was donor egg (I had chemo 2yrs ago so this would kinda make sense although my period came each month and i did concieve last year (mmc)).

Anyway after many tears and upset i had the test repeated this month and my levels have came back as 4.7 LH and 5.5 FSH :D. I've even been thinking that perhaps the first test was a typo and it shouldve been 6.4 and 7.4 but who knows!

Anyways, would you think my FS would consider IVF with my own eggs now? I know that typically they use the highest values as an indication of you likely response to IVF but maybe my case is a little far from what the norm is!

Talk about a total emotional rollercoaster.

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Wednesday, December 9th 2009, 6:40pm

Hi there

Do you know what your estradiol levels were in each of the tests?


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MrsST

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Thursday, December 10th 2009, 3:06pm

Hi eeyore, all my results this time were normal! I know they say you are only as good as your highest fsh but I'm really hoping that's not the case with such a low second test
on my last result they said everything was normal except the lh/fsh

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "MrsST" (Dec 10th 2009, 3:09pm)


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Thursday, December 10th 2009, 3:09pm

The reason I ask, is because I have been through the same thing in the last year and the FSH on its own is worthless, you need to know what your est level was in each test as it has a relationship with your FSH and *could* be what caused your result to appear high (or as was my case, my 'mormal' FSH were masked as normal as my est level was off)

If you can get the figures for both, it would help


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Thursday, December 10th 2009, 6:47pm

Hi MrsST,
As Eeyore says, you really need to get the estradiol levels which should have been tested at the same time as your FSH level. Ask your clinic/GP for a print out of the results.
blowkiss
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Friday, December 11th 2009, 8:32am

My estrdiol levels were normal on both tests they said, so I believe that means it was a true Reading for my fsh lh levels.

Do you think this might mean they will let us have a go with my own eggs, my next fs appt isn't til feb where they will talk about our options but i don't want to get my hopes up if the recent fsh levels make no difference

tia x

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Friday, December 11th 2009, 9:57am

Hi MrsST,
*IF* the second set of results is true, I can't see why you wouldn't be able to use your own eggs in an IVF cycle.
The problem is those two sets of blood test results do not make sense - a mistake has been made. It is either a lab error (rare) or a human error in communication (unfortunately common).
Because the results of these tests have such huge implications for you, I would not be trusting humans right now! I'd be getting myself a print out of the results. If it turns out the print outs are saying the same thing as the humans, I'd get the test repeated a third time (before your February appointment if possible, your GP should be able to do his for you).

Hope that helps, I am sorry I can't give you a more simple yes/no answer!
Wishing you lots of luck,
M
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Friday, December 11th 2009, 10:25am

Thanks mavis, so you think it is impossible to have such a huge difference in these tests when there is only a month between them ?

I suppose maybe the second test could be the mistake and it shouldve be 47 and 55!

I'll have a progesterone test today so will see if I can go for a repeat fsh estradiol test

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Friday, December 11th 2009, 10:32am

I guess nothing is impossible... but I would say it is highly unlikely.
I hope they can book you in for a repeat test. Try and always have it on the same day in your cycle too.
M
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Friday, December 11th 2009, 11:08am

Quoted

Originally posted by MrsST
My estrdiol levels were normal on both tests they said


Although they have said they are normal, it would be of real benefit to get the exact number of each of the tests, because of the relationship between them and the FSH level.

I had an FSH of 32 one month and 3 the following and was told the results were normal - but the est level changes the FSH, so they can't be classed as normal. It would *really* help to make things clearer if you got the full picture.

I have copied below an email I had from Paul at the time, which really explains things clearly

Quoted



There may be a mistake with one or other of these results (clerical or technical), because at face value it does not make sense. However there is a relationship between oestradiol and FSH in that a high oestradiol on day three can falsely reduce the level of FSH. Values of oestradiol greater than 50-60 can do this. This is thought to be because in the peri-menopasual state the follicles start to grow earlier in the cycle and their secretion of oestrogen supresses FSH production. This supression does not improve fertility as far as is assumed, but does give a false FSH value. This situation is thought to be a bad sign, indicative of the menopausal state, when follicles grow so early, and supports the previous assumption that your previous high FSH is indicative of an early menopause.

It has been suggested that deliberately giving oestradiol to suppress FSH can help in IVF cycles. A high FSH desensitises the ovaries to the injected FSH at IVF. Lowering the FSH falsely by giving oestradiol, by reducing the FSH, can perk up the ovaries response to FSH during a subsequent IVF cycle.

But none of the above (other than the previous 32 FSH value simply being totally erroneous) changes the situation re menopause, as both a high FSH with normal oestradiol, and a falsely normal FSH due to an elevated oestradiol, are both indicative of a peri-menopausal state.

But this needs to be followed up to decide what is really happening.

Keep me in touch.
FSH should be under 9 ideally, with E2 under 50..If E2 is higher than 50, the FSH will be falsely reduced




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MrsST

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Friday, December 11th 2009, 1:01pm

Thanks eeyore, I asked today about my estradiol levels and The nurse said it was only tested the first time but she didn't give me the levels and I felt I'd hassled her enough as it was about my other results and what it might mean with regards to ivf with my own eggs.

Anyway, they are going to do another fsh lh estradiol test on day3 of my next cycle whicch isn't too far away as Ive ovd for this month

thanks again ladies xxx

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Friday, December 11th 2009, 1:06pm

Eeyore..You said your fsh was 30 then 3 what were you lh levels ?

Did you try ivf with your own eggs? Would they let you?

Tia xx

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "MrsST" (Dec 11th 2009, 1:08pm)


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Friday, December 11th 2009, 1:08pm

You should never, ever feel that you are hassling them

The level is *essential* if you want to know if you can have IVF with your own eggs - they can't make that decision based on your FSH level alone. The two work together and so both are needed to give you an indication.

I am sorry if you think I am banging on here, but having just been through the same thing for the past year, with FSH tests done almost every month, I know what you are going through and I know that BOTH results are needed

I had one set of bloods back with a 'normal' FSH result on and the lab actually wrote 'no sign of menopause' on the bottom, because they hadn't read the two together. My FSH was 3.2 and LOOKED normal, but my est was 946 (it should be under 50) and so was masking the true result



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Friday, December 11th 2009, 1:18pm

Quoted

Originally posted by MrsST
Eeyore..You said your fsh was 30 then 3 what were you lh levels ?

Did you try ivf with your own eggs? Would they let you?

Tia xx


sorry, we cross posted

My LH was tested and varied from .5 to 2.5.

My consultant based his decision on my FSH/est levels which varied from 32/under 50 to 3.2/946.

If the combined levels could show a true FSH of under 12, I would have been able to use my own eggs, but they did not, my FSH is over 30 and I am now on HRT (I am not able to use donor eggs either as I won't carry)


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MrsST

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Friday, December 11th 2009, 1:19pm

Thanks eeyore, it's good to get advice from ppl who have been there. I'm starting to think that the fsh has been knocked of by the estradiol:-(

I will make sure they test all three next time and by then I will have two full sets if results to compare and therefore have a better picture of my options.

Fingers crossed that I can manage to get my next test done before Xmas or else I'll miss that cycle.

Thanks again x

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Friday, December 11th 2009, 1:25pm

I am really surprised that they didn't test it both times, it's done as part of the FSH test as standard. You should be able to just call the clinic and get the full results, you will not be hassling them, you need to know the results to get a clearer picture rather than starting to worry about something you don't know!


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MrsST

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Friday, December 11th 2009, 1:32pm

so your lh was always really low. I'm just thinking that although, I need to getthe estradiol levels, looking at the ratio between both my tests lh:fsh that's the ratio was quite good. I think that the situation is worse if you have elevated fsh but low lh?


Can you tell I'm looking hard for signs of hope here ;-)

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Friday, December 11th 2009, 1:36pm

Yes, I can see that but you really can't guess here

Your ratio between LH/FSH may look 'normal' but if the FSH result is not a true one because of the est relationship, then it isn't a nomal result.

The only way to be sure is to make a quick call and get the levels.


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MrsST

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Friday, December 11th 2009, 1:39pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Eeyore
I am really surprised that they didn't test it both times, it's done as part of the FSH test as standard. You should be able to just call the clinic and get the full results, you will not be hassling them, you need to know the results to get a clearer picture rather than starting to worry about something you don't know!



I know I should just phone and ask but I'm a wimp ;-)

When I get my nexr day three results I will definitel ask for all of the levels for this test coming up and the first test I had done.

To be honest the fs basically said they would do the second test just to confirm menopause so maybe they didn't see the point in the estradiol the second time!

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Friday, December 11th 2009, 1:44pm

HUH??!! They simply can NOT diagnose the menopause on two tests, let alone diagnose it without testing the est level?!!! That's ridiculous and I've never known a blood test to be done and for it to be left out!

Honestly, to stop yourself guessing and stressing over nothing just pick the phone up and ask for the results. The fact your FSH was over 70 on that tests makes it ESSENTIAL to know the level and in one quick call you can find out


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MrsST

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Friday, December 11th 2009, 1:59pm

The first time they did check est so I suspect that it was normal which is why they were pretty sure about the menopause.

I never really doubted them either but you have made me think eeyore that maybe I do need to be a bit more pushy.

On saying that I can't face that phone call today but will ask on Monday when I go in for another prog test. The nurse I've been seeing is really nice and I want to keep her on side :-)

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Friday, December 11th 2009, 2:17pm

I never doubted my consultant either, he's been my consultant since my first lap in 1991, but when results are not given in full it's not acceptable and it's not enough to suspect anything is normal, or for that matter be told 'it's normal' - we all need to know exactly what they have based 'normal' on. If you read through the site you will see many, many posts from girls who have been told 'normal' as a reply, when in fact the results haven't been.

My FSH in 2007 was given to me as 9.6 and normal, it's only now that I know that it was not normal, it was a false low result as my est was 370.



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Friday, December 11th 2009, 2:25pm

Hi MrsST

The thing that I always think it's that it's my body, my fertility, my future and therefore I want to know all my results in full. Your nurse shouldn't be offended at all by this, or by you asking for tests.

In order to be able to move forward and understand what your options are you need to take charge and get all the relevant information. Otherwise it's based on guesswork which, in my book, just makes for stress and uncertainty.

Let us know how you get on on Monday.

x

ttc since July 06. 8 cycles of clomid. BFP on cycle 5 (Dec 07) ended in m/c at 9.5 weeks. Second BFP on cycle 8 (May 08)




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Friday, December 11th 2009, 7:09pm

MrsST,
I promise you, no-one will be offended if you ask for the results. After all, they are YOUR results! More than likely, they will not even ask you why you want them.

Just ring them and ask them to print out the results. It is quicker if you have the dates the blood tests were taken on, and any hospital/clinic number - just make it as easy as possible for the person on the end of the phone to pull up your results on the screen and click print.

If they ask why, and they won't, just say you need a copy for your records. Don't go into any more detail than that (don't be drawn into a discussion on FSH/oestrogen - get the results in your hand first!)


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Friday, December 11th 2009, 7:14pm

I guess i'm still just a bit knew to this, i'm slowly learning to make sure i get the anwers i need and not be put off with being told i'm normal or not.

I've been living for the past 6wks or so with the prospect of not being able to have a baby of my own, i was so sure they were right that i wasnt even going to bother with another CD3 test. I simply thought that the chemo i had put me into menopause. However, after getting the results of the second test it has given me some hope and i guess maybe i dont want my hopes to be shattered just yet. The stress of getting a bad result was going to be worse today than the stress of wondering whether it is good or bad if you see what i mean

But you ladies are right i need to take charge which to a certain extent i have, had i not already been on the phone about my results several times aready then i wouldve phoned back today.

I really appreciate your advice and opinions and i'll let you know how monday goes... now i know you'll be expecting an answer from me i'll make sure i get one :smile:
xx

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Friday, December 11th 2009, 7:16pm

cross posts mavis,

i'll do that on monday when i'm back in for my progesterone test.

x

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Friday, December 11th 2009, 7:34pm

You should let your nurse know that a donkey, a fairy, and some bubbles are anxiously awaiting your results too :snigger:

Have a lovely weekend, and good luck for Monday - I will be keeping everything crossed for some good news,
M
x

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Friday, December 11th 2009, 10:16pm

:snigger:

thanks mavis

hope you have a lovely weekend too x

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Saturday, December 12th 2009, 9:29am

Morning ladies, hope you are all having a good weekend.

Just a quick question about what tests in total i would need done before they can make a proper decision on whether or not i can have ivf with my own eggs.

I can now see how quickly things can change and don't want to hang about on an NHS waiting list (although the nurse did kinda say something along the lines of with my results they may like to treat me sooner but i'm not holding my breath on that).

Anyways what i'm saying is that when i get the results of the next set of LH/FSH/estradiol done and *IF* they are any good then is this enough information for the hospital to decide on what treatmet i can have?

Ive read about a day 3 antral follicle count do i need this too? I had an AFC before from which i think they said they could see 8 small follicles (not very active) on one ovary but they couldn't get a good picture of the other one because i think they said it was small. This count was done on day 14 of a month where i did not ovulate. Would it be worth having requesting an AFC on day 3 of my new cycle when it starts? or i this something they only really do when they start you on ivf?

I'm sure i have had prolactin, thyriod, rubella, progesterone, LH, FSH, Estradiol (on one of the 2 sets of tests i've had) plus the day 14 AFC... so is there anything else? If there is any chance i can have ivf with my own eggs then i want to make sure we can at least try this ASAP.

Sorry for the long post, i'm enjoy my new heir of optomism at the moment but prepared if it doesn't go the way i'd like.

Anyway, i better go get organised and start my xmas shopping :8o:

TIA xx

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Saturday, December 12th 2009, 11:08am

Hiya hon,
Have you had blood tests for HIV and Hepatitis? They need to be done, normally before you start stims. Once they are done, the results are valid for one year. I am sure your clinic will do that for you (but don't pay because you can get them done at the GP for free).
Your last AFC sounds good - but there would be no harm in requesting another on day 3. The worst can do is say no.
Hope that helps!
M
x

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Saturday, December 12th 2009, 11:23am

perfect, thanks again mavis.

I now have a list of things to ask about when i go in on monday for my progesterone test :D.

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Saturday, December 12th 2009, 11:46am

Hi from me,

I agree with all that has been said above.

You need to know the full facts. You need to know what is the most likely route that is going to get you the baby that you so desire and long for. Only the full information about your fertility can help you to know what is going wrong with your body, and perhaps help to put it right.

The connection between oestradiol levels and FSH is well documented, and it is essential that you have these results. Alos you need to have a full profile of hormone tests done in your next cycle, Day 1 or 2, well away from any time that you could be ovulation.

Then when these tests have been done, get a full copy of all of the results, so that we can discuss them properly and help you to work out what is happening - for better or for worse, you've got to know this.

Good luck with this.


Paul


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" You should let your nurse know that a donkey, a fairy, and some bubbles are anxiously awaiting your results too " Plus a Pooh Bear also.
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Saturday, December 12th 2009, 12:47pm

Thanks for you reply Paul,

the responses on this thread has given me more hope but also a realistic view on what my options might be which i really really appreciate. :hugs: I understand that it still a very real possibility that ivf with my own eggs wont work but obviously before going down the route of donor eggs i now appriate (from the replies above) i need to know that i had all the necesary tests and what the actual results are before anyone can say for sure i am in the menopause.

I will make sure they test for LH/FSH and estradiol in my next day 3 test which should be sometime of the week leading up to xmas (fingers crossed not landing on xmas day! :rolleyes:).

By the time i get the results of this upcoming day 3 tests i will have 2 full set of day 3 tests (LH/FSH/estradiol) and can then figure out where we can go from there.

It's good to know that you lovely ppl here can give me a second, third, fourth and so on opinion :D

Oh, when I let my nurse know about all my little friends are also anxiously waiting these results it will probably be a different treatment altogether that she'll be referring me for rotf

Thanks again x

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "MrsST" (Dec 12th 2009, 12:48pm)


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Tuesday, December 15th 2009, 3:38pm

How did you get on yesterday?


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Wednesday, December 16th 2009, 9:10am

Hey eeyore,

good news is that I ovd this month albeit very early on day 8 or 9 Which I guess is another sign that my body could well be on the decline!

Anyway I still don't have the estridiol level from my last test down to the fact that I didn't ask!

I reckon I'll be in for another day three test on Saturday so fingers crossed for that one. By the time get my results from that I will definitely get my previous estridiol test levels so have the two sets to compare which should be by next Tuesday

I'll definitely let you all know the outcome one way or another... I hate when you read threads like these that just end and youveno idea of how things turned out

x

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Wednesday, December 16th 2009, 2:45pm

Thank you for the update hon,
M
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Thursday, December 17th 2009, 12:07pm

Just a quick update :
I phone to book my day 3 rest for Saturday and also asked about my estridiol levels.. I was having a brave moment ;-) Anyway it seems my estridiol was not tested at all!!

My tests are being done at a fertility clinic byfertility specialists and nurses but noone really seems to think this is important! Not sure if this is just because they have written me off or because the can tell enough from the tests that I have had done as to what my options will be!

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Thursday, December 17th 2009, 5:13pm

Well done for being brave MrsST!

clap

Alas, you can't correctly interpret an FSH result without:
1. It being done at the correct point in a cycle
2. Checking the estradiol at the same time

So I'm afraid your FSH result doesn't mean very much. It needs to be redone.
I don't think anyone has written you off, sadly, this mistake seems to be rather common.

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Thursday, December 17th 2009, 5:16pm

Well hon, it's your body so you can tell them you want to have it done! Don't take no for an answer ;)

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Thursday, December 17th 2009, 9:23pm

so, now i'm three months down the line (from my 1st FS appt) had numerous blood tests but still no further forward with the whole situation :cross:

Itchers, I'll be double checking on Saturday, which is day 3 of my cycle and now the 3rd LH/FSH test, that they are testing for all three so there will be no mistake this time.

So xfingers all the tests come back normal on Tuesday.

"If" they are normal then do you think i would need to have the test repeated again ?

Maybe if they are normal but the FS is still dilly dallying I should just ditch the NHS and go private!? I know i don't really have the luxioury of waiting if i stand any chance at all of trying with my own eggs. Can the NHS actually place you more or less top of the list in special circumstances? or is it a case that everyone regardless of situation has to wait the 12 months (which is the waiting list in my area)?

Questions questions which i guess may all be irrelevant to me if the result comes back bad :bawl:

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Tuesday, December 22nd 2009, 10:07am

ok so the results are in for this month!

FSH: 16.1

Estradiol : 0.46

That estradoil number looks real low to me.. not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing but I think this shows that the FSH is a proper result?

I am obviously a bit disappointed with the FSH as that is quite high again :'( but the nurse didn't say that i would definitely be ruled out of using my own eggs but that this would suggest that if we tried with my own eggs then i would need the highest dose of drugs.

I guess it will all be down to the consultant on the 18th Jan but do you ladies think i'm in with any shout at all ?

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Tuesday, December 22nd 2009, 10:51am

I just googled low oestrogen and got this http://www.wddty.com/low-oestrogen.html. Since stress also affects DHEA levels (have you had your DHEA level tested?) maybe DHEA supplements would help your chances? There is info on the internet on DHEA and IVF

The FSH is low enough that I think you are still in with a chance. The last doctor I saw told me that my 'high' FSH levels of 16-18 weren't high enough to 'impress' him and he thought I sshould give natural IVF a go. Its tough for you, having to wait till Jan 18th to find out, but maybe you could spend the time doing acupuncture and meditation or something? ;-)

Good luck and hope you get some good answers!

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Tuesday, December 22nd 2009, 11:47am

thanks coffeebean

I guess i'm getting used to the waiting, all the waiting that comes with each cycle.. waiting to ov and waiting to test etc then waiting for times of cycles to blood test then waiting for results, you learn to become more patient.

I spoke to the nurse about how soon i could start ivf on the nhs if they would allow us, i wanted to know whether anyone is ever fast tracked because of special circumstances but she said no... which is fine. The only way they fast track is if someone is about to go through chemo. At the time of my diagnosis they said there was no time to wait before starting treatment and at that time my life was more important than children which was obviously the right decision and i have a lot to be grateful for just being here.... still doesn't make it any easier being told you may never have your own children.

Anyways i digress, so then i asked about going private and the waiting list for private is about 2-3 months so fingers crossed they can give us at least a go to see if i will respond. For my own peace of mind i would love to at least try with my own eggs... like they say, it only takes one.

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Tuesday, December 22nd 2009, 12:26pm

Hi MrsST,
I do think you are in with a chance using your own eggs, and if it was me I'd definitely give it a go.
M
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Tuesday, December 22nd 2009, 12:40pm

thanks mavis,

i'm doing a bit of research on this DHEA, lots of promising articles but i'll wait and see what the consultant says in january... fingers crossed he is a bit more optomistic than the last time i saw him.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "MrsST" (Dec 22nd 2009, 12:40pm)


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Tuesday, December 22nd 2009, 12:47pm

xfingers
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Tuesday, December 22nd 2009, 12:56pm

Hi Mrs ST



I think you're definitely in with a shot! My FSH was 17.2 and we went ahead - I responded poorly despite huuuuuge drugs and only produced 2 eggs. BUT, both fertilised and one stuck. Alice is now 14 months old!



Hope that helps your PMA a little!



x






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Tuesday, December 22nd 2009, 1:06pm

Thanks Jodie, you have a very inspiring story :smile: and very much proof of there is hope which does indeed help my PMA.

Thanks again ladies, hope you all have a very merry xmas

x

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Friday, January 8th 2010, 10:49am

Hi Ladies,

Hope you all had a great xmas and new year.

Just had my progesterone level results which were tested on Day 21 ( for once in a long time i reckon i had actually ovd on Day 14) and the results were 73.3 :thumbsup: .

Nurse reckoned that was an excellent result which i suppose was even better given it was done on Day 21.

She said to expect a/f within the next 7-10days and to come back for another fsh/estradiol test... i'm secretly hoping that the witch doesn't show at all next week and we can cancel the FS altogether xfingers ... PMA :) .

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Friday, January 8th 2010, 10:53am

That is a great result :D
And xfingers
M
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