You are not logged in.


Unread posts

Dear visitor, welcome to FertilityZone . If this is your first visit here, please read the Help. It explains in detail how this page works. To use all features of this page, you should consider registering. Please use the registration form, to register here or read more information about the registration process. If you are already registered, please login here.

  • "fairyfallon" started this thread

Posts: 111

Reg: Sep 11th 2008

Location: lancashire

Children: 2 beautiful nephews 4 beautiful nieces in my life

  • Send private message

1

Sunday, October 18th 2009, 1:07pm

no fertilization after previous success

Hi Paul,
Over the past year or so I have read a lot of your posts and love the way you put things. Maybe I'm posting in the wrong place but I'd just like to run my case by you if that's ok! I'm on other threads to but wanted to ask you specifically. Hope you don't mind!
I have just had my 2nd IVF cycle cancelled due to zero fertilization. My 1st cycle I had 6 mature eggs, 4 fertilized. Had 4 embryos (2 grade 2 and 2 grade 3). 3 replaced at transfer but BFN.
This cycle, I had 5 mature eggs and none fertilized! I have not been able to find anyone else in exactly this position. It mainly seems that fertilization fails on a first cycle, not a second one after previous success. The embryologist said it could be the eggs, the sperm or the compatablilty. I could have figured that out myself!
Is it strange that this has happened or should I just accept it as one of those things? We will not be doing IVF again as we are self-funding and can't afford to go again. I am 42 next week. All my bloods etc are normal and my FSH has always been less than 10.
I just can't understand why nothing fertilized this time! After the last cycle we assumed the problem was one of implantation but now this adds more questions to the mix! We are obviously going to keep trying naturally and hope for a miracle.
I would be very interested in your thoughts, Paul but apologise if this is not in the right place.
Thanks
Fairyfallon

Posts: 2,505

Reg: May 2nd 2007

Children: A boy and a girl, both living in London

  • Send private message

2

Thursday, October 22nd 2009, 7:59pm

RE: no fertilization after previous success

Hi FairyF.,

Anywhere is the right place if you can find me, and my apologies for the delay in getting to reply to your post. I am sorry also to hear about your experiences with IVF and your being unable to try again.

The whole process of IVF is clearly very artificial and fertility. It is not the norm to produce and rupture multiple mature follicles (unless you are having piglets), and the process whereby this is achieved does (I believe) influence egg and embryo quality such that fertility as measured by IVF response does not truly reflect natural, inate fertility.

Response to superovulatory drugs is unpredictable and can vary very widely from cycle to cycle, and a good or adequate response in the first cycle can certainly by followed by a bad response. Because so many cycles do fail or are cancelled because of a poor response, the usual response from the fertility unit is to try again. It would take too much time and resources to try to determine in detail why each cycle did not lead to a pregnancy, so "try again" is the answer. This is in contrast to other areas of medicine with much high success rates where it is unusual for the treatment to fail, or in say cattle breeding where one expects around 95 pregnancies from a single bull semen.

Also we do not know what fertile eggs look like, nor good embryos. Often quite poor eggs lead to good embryos, and poor embryos put in in desperation can often can implant and give good babies in turn. We can only judge by obvious physical appearance and this is not always valid. The person best placed to determine why your two cycles were so very different is the embryologist who saw your eggs, sperm and embryos. If he/she is unable to give any reasons for this it is difficult for anyone else to hazard a guess.

I believe that it is better if the IVF cycle is matched to the natural cycle. Trying to override the strong menstrual pulse that many women have leads to the unit having to force the system (like rhubarb), which leads only to a poor response or eggs that are prejudiced in some way and become not fertilisable. Natural cycle IVF appeals to me for this reason, and this might be something that you could afford at some point. You could check with the HFEA who is doing this now.

But in essence I don't think that you will get an explanantion or any guarantee what a future cycle will lead to, and I cannot offer you any real explanation either. Some women's systems seem to suit superovulation and they always get a good response, whilst for others this is not the case. It may be that you just have to accept what has happened. It is not strange that this has happened to you, just very sad.

Kind regards,
Fertility Scientist and Andrologist
Fertility Counsellor, Holistic Therapist and Hypnotherapist
Providing Fertility Information, Assessment and Enhancement.
Natural family planning teacher.

  • "fairyfallon" started this thread

Posts: 111

Reg: Sep 11th 2008

Location: lancashire

Children: 2 beautiful nephews 4 beautiful nieces in my life

  • Send private message

3

Thursday, October 22nd 2009, 8:30pm

Hi Paul,
Thank you so much for your reply. I truly appreciate it.
I think I have accepted that it is just one of those things. I have found it harder than my BFN as I suppose I wasn't expecting it after having got fertilized eggs last time!!
I have never really been happy with the idea of IVF and, what you say about natural cycle IVF does appeal more. I was on the short protocol for both cycles so did not do the downregging. I was pleased about this as I would have personally been uncomfortable with that part of the process. I coped well with the stimulation drugs and, fortunately, only had to take them for 9 and 10 days respectively.
As I say, we will keep trying naturally and hope one good egg gets through somehow!!
Incidentally, and to change the subject somewhat, do you believe there is any evidence that blood groups of partners can affect their ability to conceive? My friend told me that she had read about incompatible blood groups. Do you know if there is any truth in this? I'm sure if this were the case, it would be one of the first investigations. Or am I missing something?
Anyway, thanks again, Paul. As I say, I have always enjoyed reading your posts and it is so lovely to have a response from you. :smile:
Fairyfallon

Posts: 2,505

Reg: May 2nd 2007

Children: A boy and a girl, both living in London

  • Send private message

4

Thursday, October 22nd 2009, 8:44pm

Hi,

As a one-time haematologist I am aware of no blood group factors in infertility. Other than things like Rhesus incompatibility which can lead to neonatal jaundice or very occasionally intra-uterine death, and which can now be fully prevented (and a similar situation to this can also result from other minor blood group systems incompatibility and can be treated), there is no blood group incompatibility that can cause infertility.

Any undiscovered problem of this nature would have to be very mild or very rare to be still undiscovered (at least by me). So I am not sure what she has read.

Paul
Fertility Scientist and Andrologist
Fertility Counsellor, Holistic Therapist and Hypnotherapist
Providing Fertility Information, Assessment and Enhancement.
Natural family planning teacher.

  • "fairyfallon" started this thread

Posts: 111

Reg: Sep 11th 2008

Location: lancashire

Children: 2 beautiful nephews 4 beautiful nieces in my life

  • Send private message

5

Thursday, October 22nd 2009, 8:50pm

Thanks, Paul, I thought it sounded a bit ropey! A haematologist too! I'm very impressed. I will continue to read your posts with interest, especially those on TTC naturally. Many thanks again for your time, Paul. :smile:
Fairyfallon




FERTILITYZONE



MEDHURST – PROUD HOSTS OF FERTILITYZONE