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Billie

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1

Friday, January 2nd 2009, 1:46pm

Advice and help after 3 BFN's

Hiya girls,
As an oldie at all this i feel that i should have the answers but after my NYE BFN i feel kinda lost.
My bfn's are all from 1 batch of eggs. i got 18 to start, then 12 that fertilised which ended up as 9 in all due to some not progressing.
I had a 2x fresh embie transfer...bfn, 2x fet embie transfer...bfn and again another 2x fet embie transfer...bfn
i know we are all looking for answers but i really dont know whare to go from here. my clinic are ok but every suggestion i have made to them has been dismissed and everything.
my clinic is nhs and i'm not paying for tx atm so i really do think this is having a bearing on whats going on with the lack of open-mindedness.

i sound ungrateful but i promise i'm not. i just feel that if i am going to get another nhs go, why just go in like before and bang another one out only to have it all go wrong again??
what if theres an underlying cause? i know the endo and blocked tubes are already enough cause but what if theres something wrong with the eggs or sperm or both that even the embryologist cant see with just her equipment.

i suppose what i am asking is.....
in addition to the above follow up questions on this thread, is there anything i can ask/enquire about, that i could suggest for some help.

has anyone been in this situation and found some answers?

any/all suggestions welcome.

ps, my clinic doesnt know about the bfn yet. i will call monday when they are back properly.
Me 38, DH 39
TTC for 8 years +
1st IVF & FET= No Transfer
4 x BFN

"Some days you're the dog........Most days you're the tree"

Posts: 3,072

Reg: Dec 18th 2007

Location: Bath

Children: one perfect little miracle baby boy - now trying for a little brother or sister !!

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2

Friday, January 2nd 2009, 2:04pm

Hey hun i dont really have an answer but i really feel for you, my clinic didn't really have any answers to my BFN's either, my con said there is no reason why its not worked just bad luck!! They are pretty good though and are changing my stims next time to see if i can get more eggs and hopefully culture to blast, and i used baby asprin after ET last time but only because i suggested it - con said no evidence either way but give it a go? Hey every little helps i say :smile:
Also remember FET's do have a slightly lower success rate then fresh :sadface: are you having another FET or a fresh go next time?

Thats prob not helped at all really but wanted to reply
thinking of you sweety
blowkiss


IVF 5th time lucky
- BFP
Trying for No 2 - BFP


Billie

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3

Friday, January 2nd 2009, 2:44pm

i have to go fresh hun.
i got 2 out of my last 5 and the rest didnt make it.
i think my stimms and everything is right for me, i did well with the eggs last time but i do have more concerns....

my first ivf i got 6 eggs, 3 fertlized but my wonb lining had shrunk too low for et....no transfer. i had all 3 frozen, did a fet and when it came to the thaw, they all didnt make it. so in effect, that ivf cycle just didnt happen.

i have explained the other cycle but again, personally i think my lining was a problem. i have asked for viagra, baby aspirin anything to help thicken the lining but my cons is of the mind that if it was proven, all clinics would be doing it.
well fair enough but it has helped some people so why cant that try me on it?

i think i might(if i get a good amount of eggs) try to discuss blast with them this time.

i wont let this lie. i just have a niggly feeling theres more to this than meets the eye
Me 38, DH 39
TTC for 8 years +
1st IVF & FET= No Transfer
4 x BFN

"Some days you're the dog........Most days you're the tree"

Posts: 189

Reg: Sep 2nd 2008

Location: essex

Children: Andy has 2 children from a previous marriage

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4

Friday, January 2nd 2009, 3:09pm

HI Billie,

I really sympathise with your story, after 3 BFN's you begin to lose hope and question whether it is ever going to work! I too was told that all 3 cycles didn't work because of bad luck, but like you I am convinced that there is some other reason. Have you considered having immune testing? It is something that we thought about, but the fight proved too much for me after the third let down.

I was at Bourn, you could ask them about heprin, it will increase the blood flow to feed the embryo - I tried it with the last cycle, it didn't work for me, but i know some girls who have postitive results after using it - I know you can't be certain if was soley because of that though!

On my second cycle I was prescribed some HRT drugs to thicken my lining - can't remember what they were called now.

Hope you begin to find some answers Billie,

Love Sarah.xx
I'm Sarah (32), married to Andy (39) for 3 years. Andy had a vasectomy before we met, after a failed reversal op, we have had 3 unsuccessful IVF cycles, another reversal op - OMG it worked - now trying naturally.

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Children: one perfect little miracle baby boy - now trying for a little brother or sister !!

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5

Friday, January 2nd 2009, 3:14pm

Are you gonna have the chance for a follow up? Can you email questions to your con before your appt? i did and it helped loads?
xxx


IVF 5th time lucky
- BFP
Trying for No 2 - BFP


kar1

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6

Friday, January 2nd 2009, 3:15pm

ok first things first you must book and follow up on monday

with any ivf cycle the embryologist chosen an embryo to transfer purely by sight they can not she is this embryo is gentically right and my embryolist says its impossible to rule out an egg issue until a live birth has been achieved

they are a few test you could have such as clotting screen and chromosome testing but you might have to push for them and also you could request a lap to remove any endo and at the same time get a hysterscopy done

the one thing i would go for is blast as this will tell them so much about what is happening to your embryos and also helps chose the ones most lightly to implant.

if you want to try viagra etc maybe tell your clinic that you want to take it and would like their support on this, also maybe try some steriods. often clinics that are not willing to try things change there mind after a few fails.
TTC 12 years

2 early losses

lots of ops and tx

both tubes removed

5th fresh short protocol
:BFP:

Tyler May born 5/5/2010 by emergency c section. Tyler is our sunshine

deedee1

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7

Friday, January 2nd 2009, 4:16pm

Hi Billie,

I'm so sorry to read your story - you've been through the mill haven't you?


I'm currently on a medicated FET cycle and am on Viagra and estrofem and oestrogen patches.

Like you, my first ICSI was cancelled but me due to hyperstimulation. My next FET was cancelled due to my lining not being thick enough and I had a BFN on my last FET, again with my lining being an issue (just about ok in the end though). Half way through my last cycle, when the lining wasn't working out, I was put on an increased dose of oestrogen (HRT drugs) and an oestrogen patch. I was also put on 4 Viagra tabs per day, taken as a suppository. My clinic are very progressive and use it a lot for lining issues with good success.

On this FET, I was put on the highest dosage of everything from the start and I have my next scan on Monday to measure the thickness. I'll let you know how I get on but I certainly would ask your clinic to prescribe it to you - it does help lining.

Just one other thing that i found good for thickening lining - acupuncture.

Duffymoon

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8

Friday, January 2nd 2009, 4:43pm

Hi Billie

:hugs:

You've had some great advice honey - just wanted to add that there are sadly a lot of us who've experienced exactly the frustration and disappointment you've had and of course it's only natural that we crave answers.

The problem is that each couple brings their own issues and what may work for one may not for another.

As you know I went down the immunogy route but definitely feel a little bit like a guinea pig! Obviously I'm only just starting the treatment. My logical head can understand the test results but if it was that simple, my logical head doesn't understand why more clinics aren't jumping on board! I know it's down to costs/trials etc a lot of the time.

I agree with Kara and my advice would be to push for blasts next time. Achieving a blastocyst says soooooo so much and is a huge achievement in itself. In my last cycle I was fully prepared not to have a transfer if we didn't get any blastocysts - so many people say that if they didn't get to blasts in the dish then they wouldn't in you. It's impossible to ever know this for sure.

Best of luck for your follow-up on Monday. :cuddle

xx


4 x ICSI BFN
5th time :BFP:
:boy: :girl:




Billie

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Friday, January 2nd 2009, 5:02pm

Thank you all for the advice.
there is so much more here than i can process at once but i have some food for thought and alot of googling to do lol.

deedee i will be looking out for how your scan went so i can take some notes.

i have some time to get ready for my follow up as i haven't even told the clinic a got a bfn yet. i will arrange the follow up on monday and in the meantime, i will start compiling my list of questions.

thanks again to you all for answering.
xxxxx
Me 38, DH 39
TTC for 8 years +
1st IVF & FET= No Transfer
4 x BFN

"Some days you're the dog........Most days you're the tree"

Maria72

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Friday, January 2nd 2009, 6:59pm

Hi Billie I can't give you much advice, except can you not have a one off appointment at Bourn before you have one on the nhs?

Billie

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11

Friday, January 2nd 2009, 7:03pm

i dont have any money hun.
i think there is more they can do to help. they just need a little coaxing.

girls??? what about assisted hatching?
do you think this is worth mentioning?
Me 38, DH 39
TTC for 8 years +
1st IVF & FET= No Transfer
4 x BFN

"Some days you're the dog........Most days you're the tree"

kar1

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Friday, January 2nd 2009, 7:22pm

yeah its worth mentioning hun

ive had hatching twice, i would have hatching on a day 2/3 embryo or blasts
TTC 12 years

2 early losses

lots of ops and tx

both tubes removed

5th fresh short protocol
:BFP:

Tyler May born 5/5/2010 by emergency c section. Tyler is our sunshine

Billie

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  • "Billie" started this thread

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13

Friday, January 2nd 2009, 7:38pm

ok i'm gonna add to my list.

i'm going back to basics first and then discussing the endo/blocked tubes first with the hope of a lap. i need to do more investigating but i'm going to ask about the possiblility of fluid etc....
Me 38, DH 39
TTC for 8 years +
1st IVF & FET= No Transfer
4 x BFN

"Some days you're the dog........Most days you're the tree"

kar1

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14

Friday, January 2nd 2009, 7:40pm

get the questions sorted and email to me hun
TTC 12 years

2 early losses

lots of ops and tx

both tubes removed

5th fresh short protocol
:BFP:

Tyler May born 5/5/2010 by emergency c section. Tyler is our sunshine

yogababe

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15

Friday, January 2nd 2009, 10:23pm

Yes I was going to suggest assisted hatching. My friends had about 6 tries at IVF (not NHS) and got to know the embriologist really well in the end. They were chatting and she strongly asked for assisted hatching. The embriologist said she really thought it wasn't needed but when actually doing it she said that she was surprised as how many layers she had to take away from the egg. So I would ask. You could even ask if you could pay just for someone to do that part of it. Not sure if NHS would do that though.

Good luck with your IVF journey. Lots of positive thoughts going your way.
1st ICSI Cycle: ET BFN,
2nd Cycle: FET BFP m/c 9 weeks
3rd Cycle: FET No date yet.

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16

Friday, January 2nd 2009, 11:56pm

Billie, totally agree with the advice given here. I don't think I can add more.
I would definitely push for a Karyotype and Thrombophilia screen. They even do basic immune tests on NHS called Level 1 tests. It might be worth getting them done to make sure if there is anything preventing implantation of embryos. I will send you the list if you want.
And agree to going to blastocyst stage. If I had more than 2 embryos anytime I would have insisted on blastocyst. What has been the grade of your embryos?
Assisted Hatching is a good idea aswell.
If I think about anything else will let you know.

Billie

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17

Saturday, January 3rd 2009, 3:53pm

hi rightans,
my embies have been grade 1 according to the embryologist so excellent.
i would like you to send me the details of the basic tests please hun. i am getting all the info possible.
only 23 days for you then hun. hopefully you too can get some answers. xxx
Me 38, DH 39
TTC for 8 years +
1st IVF & FET= No Transfer
4 x BFN

"Some days you're the dog........Most days you're the tree"

Mrs M

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Reg: Oct 10th 2006

Location: Wiltshire

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18

Sunday, January 4th 2009, 5:39pm

Hey missus

Here are a load of my follow-up q's I have asked before - they may or may not help. Hope you get some answers hun:

2007 q's:
1. 2nd failed cycle
a) What were the main factors that contributed to this negative cycle?

2. Eggs:
a) How was the quality of the eggs? (Were they mature enough?)

3. Sperm:
a) How was the quality of the sperm?

4. Embryos:
a) What was the overall quality of the embryos like?
b) Could assisted hatching help us?
c) 1st cycle – no IVF fertilized – why would that be?

6. HSG vs Laparoscopy (unexplained infertility)
a) HSG was clear – would a Lap show anything different? Recommend?

7. Drugs:
a) How do you feel I responded to the drugs for down regulation and stimulation
b) Do you feel I am on right drugs at the right dose or should this be changed next time?

8. Next cycle:
a) FET next? (6 frozen)
b) natural versus medicated? (success rates)
c) fresh versus frozen – any order?
d) recommend to keep trying? Any other lifestyle changes

2008 lot:
1. 2nd failed FET cycle (and 4th total)
a) What were the main factors that contributed to this negative cycle?

2. Embryos:
a) How was the quality of the embryos? Any concerns with them?
b) Assisted hatching twice but still no success – aspirin this last time
c) No implantation – why might that be?
d) Thoughts on blastocyst?

3. Immune testing
a) What are the clinic’s views on immune testing and antibodies/NK cells?
b) Blood tests? (NK cell assay)
c) Steroids/clexane?

4. Host surrogacy
a) Something I believe this clinic supports
b) Any advice on this being an option for us
c) What are the key steps?

xx

------------------------------
Me 33 DH 40, TTC 7+ yrs, unexplained infertility
3 x ICSI and 3 x natural FET with assisted hatching - all BFN :(
Our treatment journey has now ended

kar1

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19

Sunday, January 4th 2009, 5:41pm

mrs m what were the answers?
TTC 12 years

2 early losses

lots of ops and tx

both tubes removed

5th fresh short protocol
:BFP:

Tyler May born 5/5/2010 by emergency c section. Tyler is our sunshine




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