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kar1

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1

Wednesday, March 12th 2008, 4:04pm

NK cells / implantion failure

I recieved info from a certain clinic yesterday with full price list yet no price for reacurrent mc/implantion failure testing

so i called and im sorry by what a joke, the only way to get the price of said tests in to pay £170 for an intial appointment.

This is wrong, what is it will some clinic that make you feel like they are there to rip you off and not help.

anyone have any idea of the price for such tests?

i can say that this clinic is not argc

this of course is my view and not one of fertility zone
TTC 12 years

2 early losses

lots of ops and tx

both tubes removed

5th fresh short protocol
:BFP:

Tyler May born 5/5/2010 by emergency c section. Tyler is our sunshine

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2

Wednesday, March 12th 2008, 4:12pm

Sorry K, I don't know the answer to your question but this sounds just wrong! £170 consultation before you can get a price list? This does not sound right at all!

Hope someone answers your question.
xx
TTC 13 yrs; Me: 44
1-4 ICSI: BFN
5 - 8 Dr Gorgy
4. IMSI Immune Dr Gorgy:bio BFP
6 PICSI Dr G BFN
7 FET Dr G 8/13: failed BFP
8 PICSI 2014 BFN
9th - Me, myself and I. Serum hysteroscopy with implantation cuts Oct 2017; Serum FET Nov/Dec 2017? I'm now on my own following shock divorce. Keeping positive that I finally get my Miraclebaby.

The end of this journey shall justify the pains. I must win this fight
.

Diary

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3

Wednesday, March 12th 2008, 4:24pm

Ive PM'd you...The list i've given you, is what ive received from Care manchester.

It doesnt appear to have anything on there regarding this...

Maybe give them a call... i know its far away, but at least you'll have some idea then
me 38 DH 45 - unexplained infertility and ttc for 4 years ,Mar 07 -Missed m/c
4 attempts at Clomid - BFN (Jun , Jul, Aug, and Nov 07)

Apr 08 - ICSI - BFN
Oct 08 - ICSI - BFP

Baby boys born on 29-May-09

Torisen

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4

Wednesday, March 12th 2008, 4:27pm

Kara can you give me their number so that I can phone and yell at them? I could do with some yelling!!!
ICSI Jan 2006 - BFP
MC one twin at 6 weeks
DS born in Oct 2006
BF DS 10 months 3 weeks and 5 days
FET 11/07, ICSI 12/07 (ABANDONED), ICSI 2/08, IUI 5/08 - BFN
Clomid IUI 7/08 BFP MC a twin... again :(


kar1

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5

Wednesday, March 12th 2008, 4:36pm

just called care

intial appointment forgot to ask lol

level one test didn't ask as ive had these

level 2 tests £1130

if not all needed £946

blood flow scan £200

omg thats loads of money

if i have these done i would have to have tx there and then maybe ivig which again is very very expensive

anyone know anywhere that will test without me having tx there?

im not paying this when i have the steriods and clexane anyway and as for ivig....my views are not sure to be honest and my pocket is way to shallow
TTC 12 years

2 early losses

lots of ops and tx

both tubes removed

5th fresh short protocol
:BFP:

Tyler May born 5/5/2010 by emergency c section. Tyler is our sunshine

Lcli

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6

Wednesday, March 12th 2008, 4:55pm

:scared: whoaaaa that is expensive Kara!!!! I'll look into CARE Manchester

Mrs M

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7

Wednesday, March 12th 2008, 5:02pm

Will pm you with info I found out xx

------------------------------
Me 33 DH 40, TTC 7+ yrs, unexplained infertility
3 x ICSI and 3 x natural FET with assisted hatching - all BFN :(
Our treatment journey has now ended

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8

Wednesday, March 12th 2008, 6:18pm

RE: NK cells / implantion failure

Hey

Not sure the name of these types of tests - the argc has a price list on its website if you know what they're called Kara??

And it does show what rip off merchants some clinics are

C
xx
Cathie

Proud mum to Eric after 3 years TCC!!!

kar1

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9

Wednesday, March 12th 2008, 6:30pm

I thank that argc will only do these tests if you have tx there, i could be wrong

you use to be able to arrange them direct with labs in Chicago but this loop hole has been closed, very naugthie as the price for doing it this way was below £500..........if only the nhs would test for them

level one test have been done, it just the level 2 ones that not many believe in and of course then you have to have the tx and some of it i wouldn't have......

i think maybe stick with my steriods and clexane and be happy with that
TTC 12 years

2 early losses

lots of ops and tx

both tubes removed

5th fresh short protocol
:BFP:

Tyler May born 5/5/2010 by emergency c section. Tyler is our sunshine

kski

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10

Wednesday, March 12th 2008, 9:26pm

The Cost at ARGC was baout £700

I reckon you could pick a flight up to chicago for £330

just an idea :shush:
DAD to twins

kar1

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11

Thursday, March 13th 2008, 8:19am

i have contact 1 lab in chicago and they will not test blood anymore unless it comes via a clinic

i am though on the case and have more to contact

i love research
TTC 12 years

2 early losses

lots of ops and tx

both tubes removed

5th fresh short protocol
:BFP:

Tyler May born 5/5/2010 by emergency c section. Tyler is our sunshine

nickate

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12

Thursday, March 13th 2008, 11:33am

My hospital did mine for free! I was lucky enough to be there doing IVF when a doctor was doing research programme. She may still be doing it. Hospital is Liverpools Womens Hospital and the name of the doctor is Dr Siobhan Quenby. If you ring her she may still be doing the research. Hope so for you.

Katex :happy:
Katex jilly bab13

nickate

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13

Thursday, March 13th 2008, 11:41am

Sorry forgot to say that her department is the Reproductive Immunology Clinic (for unknown causes of miscarriage and implantation) and the hosptial phone number is 0151 708 9988.

Good luck, I am sure that she is looking for volunteers if she is doing a research programme.

Katex :happy:
Katex jilly bab13

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14

Friday, July 25th 2008, 10:32am

Quoted

Originally posted by nickate
My hospital did mine for free! I was lucky enough to be there doing IVF when a doctor was doing research programme. She may still be doing it. Hospital is Liverpools Womens Hospital and the name of the doctor is Dr Siobhan Quenby. If you ring her she may still be doing the research. Hope so for you.

Katex :happy:



...just to share, I actually emailed Dr Quenby recently asking for advice/ details of immunology clinics in my area - central scotland - and she emailed back saying that she would see me!!! (I've had 6 m/c's). I'm now just waiting for her secretary to sned me some details.
I did notice that it looks like she's due to receive more funding for research into recurrent preg loss in Aug this year - so maybe there's more trialing about to start!?
Vx


10 Losses:
Aug07@11wks
Oct07 Dec07 Mar08 & Apr08 - biochemical pregs
June08 @7wks (baby aspirin)
July08 & Aug08 - biochemical pregs
Oct08 @6wks (cyclogest)
Feb09 @6wks (cyclogest & baby aspirin)


...trying Traditional Chinese Medicine & accupuncture just now!



My Diary



nickate

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15

Saturday, July 26th 2008, 7:29am

so glad scotswife thats great news, wishing you all the best

Kate x
Katex jilly bab13

gemmab

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Children: 2 miracle icsi boys and 2 step kids.

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16

Saturday, July 26th 2008, 7:32am

Fantastic news scotswife- good luck.x

ICSI 1 Apr 08-m/c 9.5.8
FETJul 08-BFN
ICSI 2 Dec 08 (ES) -I'm a mummy Kaynan arrived 19.8.09! :heart:
ICSI 3 Dec 10 (ES) -BFN
FET Mar 11- BFP- M/C ;(
ICSI 4 (ES) -:BFP: 1.7.11 Cobi arrived 09.03.12 [zx160]
Egg donation Aug 2012 BFN for recipient- gutted
Egg donation Dec 2012 Recipient :BFP:
Egg donation 27.05.2013- not great - please pray for the recipient :dust:





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17

Sunday, July 27th 2008, 9:37am

Hi Kara

As you know I've had a NK cells analysis and they cost us £595 - which was the top end. I'm not really convinced about it.

The feedback on the results was really vague and was all about what ifs and %s. There is little research in this area and even though we met a lead research at a London clinic (not the ARGC) he didn't come across with conviction either.

I'll feel better about this area when there's more robust research.

Did anyone read the Daily Mail on Friday about IVF treatments that have little impact - it mentioned the area if immunology.

Michele




4 ICSI - all BFN
Poor responder (6 eggs max on left ovary only)
High NK cells
Considering Egg Donation

kar1

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18

Sunday, July 27th 2008, 10:09am

yes i read it

I too think this need widespread studies, often us women are desparate to try anything

i know i felt i should go and get everything tested and have any treatment offered but i took a step back and decided i didn't want to feel like an experiment.

i have spoken in depth to my cons and embryologist about this all

these are my views only!!
TTC 12 years

2 early losses

lots of ops and tx

both tubes removed

5th fresh short protocol
:BFP:

Tyler May born 5/5/2010 by emergency c section. Tyler is our sunshine

Posts: 673

Reg: Jul 7th 2008

Location: London

Children: Hopeful for 2009...

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19

Sunday, July 27th 2008, 10:15am

Hi ladies,

If this FET doesn't work we will be looking into having more tests. Could you please let me know what level one and level two tests cover?

Thanks very much

K
x

kar1

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20

Sunday, July 27th 2008, 10:47am

Karyotyping for DH and you (tests for any genetic issues)
Sperm assays and investigations - including DNA fragmentation testing

Uterine
Hysteroscopy, HSG etc. to check for scarring, fibroids, polyps etc
Thin lining, no triple stripe etc.
Doppler - to check blood flow in uterus


Insulin resistance (fasting glucose test)
Thyroid levels (TSH, T3, T4)
Anti Nuclear Antibodies
Anti thyroglobulin
Anti-thyroid antibodies
Full Blood count
ESR (Erythrocyte Sedimentation rate)
RA (Rheumatoid Arthritis)

BLOOD CLOTTING PANEL (Thrombophilia panel)

Serum Immunoglobulins (IgG, IgM and IgA)
Activated Protein C Resistance
Factor V Leiden genotype
Anti Phospholipid Antibodies
Lupus Anticoagulant
Anti Cardiolipin Antibodies
Plasma Free Protein S level
Factor II G20210A
Prothrombin Gene Mutation
Antithrombin III M
Fibrinogen level
APTT (Activited Partial Thromboplastin Time)
APTR

MTHFR (methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase) and connected with this is measurement of your homocysteine levels (The GP may not be able to do this one)

BACTERIAL

Mycoplasma,
Ureaplasma
Bacterial vaginosis
Chlamydia and any other bacterial infections
Varicella Zoster antibodies

Progesterone
Extra progesterone e.g. Gestone (injectible progesterone) may also be needed.
Get progesterone levels checked at the same time as any beta tests (or even 1 week after embryo transfer) to make sure you have adequate levels (especially if you have had a cycle where you have started bleeding before the end of the 2ww).


Immune testing (so called Chicago or Level 2 tests) - to be done by specialist consultant:-

Natural Killer Cells
Cytokines, (TH1, TH2)
Tnf-alpha
DQ Alpha
LAD

you should be able to get level one testing through your gp or clinic

babyforkate...can i ask something, in your sig it says trying for baby number one since 2007?
what investigations have you had?
TTC 12 years

2 early losses

lots of ops and tx

both tubes removed

5th fresh short protocol
:BFP:

Tyler May born 5/5/2010 by emergency c section. Tyler is our sunshine

Posts: 673

Reg: Jul 7th 2008

Location: London

Children: Hopeful for 2009...

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21

Sunday, July 27th 2008, 11:24am

WOW! Thanks so much Kara, very much appreciated.

Well, we have been tcc for 17 months now and had all our initial full blood tests and DH's SA done on the NHS. All of them came back as normal. We were also checked for chlamydia, other STD's and I had a high vaginal swab to check for other bacterial nasties, all negative.

We then went private and I had a HSG which was completely normal. All blood tests repeated were normal. I was tracked fully for one cycle and I ovulated normally, uterine lining was good, progesterone levels fine and the PCT was also very good. DH had another full SA done which was very good. The hycosy also showed nothing wrong before the IVF.

So really what we were thinking of asking about were the immunity tests and any genetic/chromosome abnormalities. Is that what you were thinking of doing too?

Thanks so much for your help, i've been very confused about all of this :loony:

kar1

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22

Sunday, July 27th 2008, 11:34am

ive had the level one tests amd did think about the level 2 tests but i won't be having them

it can take some couples can take up to 2 years for a natural pregnancy hun, ive no doubt you know this. IVF can take a few goes to work hunni and lets hope you won;t need testing

have you read dr beer's book, is your body baby friendly? i would advise reading this and making up your own mind about nk cells and immune issues

this is also a good read
http://www.rcog.org.uk/resources/Public/…ion_Paper_5.pdf

revised paper
http://www.rcog.org.uk/resources/Public/pdf/SAC_Paper_5.pdf
TTC 12 years

2 early losses

lots of ops and tx

both tubes removed

5th fresh short protocol
:BFP:

Tyler May born 5/5/2010 by emergency c section. Tyler is our sunshine

Posts: 673

Reg: Jul 7th 2008

Location: London

Children: Hopeful for 2009...

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23

Sunday, July 27th 2008, 11:44am

Thanks for the papers Kara, I'll read them in the garden today. I'll also check out Dr Beers book, I've heard of him. You are a mine of all knowledge :smile: Btw I watched your videos showing you do your injections and you are well ard! I am going to copy you if I have to do them again.

I totally agree with you, I think it's very easy as a vulnerable ttcer to get sucked up into having millions of tests for no gain whatsoever. Thanks for your kind words about it taking some couples longer. I really hope your long journey is nearly over and you get your sticky bfp very very soon. You are so helpful and caring to all the ladies on here.

kar1

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24

Sunday, July 27th 2008, 11:49am

aww thank you mate

i started off knowing nothing so i like to share my knowledge. dr beer is the guy that first did immune testing
TTC 12 years

2 early losses

lots of ops and tx

both tubes removed

5th fresh short protocol
:BFP:

Tyler May born 5/5/2010 by emergency c section. Tyler is our sunshine

smurfy

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Reg: Jan 14th 2008

Location: Wales

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25

Tuesday, August 5th 2008, 11:15am

RE: NK cells / implantion failure

Hi Kara

You and me are probably looking into the same thing. I've had 3 failed live ICSI/IVF and 1 failed FET all at CARE Manchester. I'm afraid my Husband and I have just lost faith there for the time being, great clinic and nice people but we don't have confidence anymore.

We did the tests for Caryotyping, the chromosone matches etc, all normal and then looked at anti-coagulants. I tested positive for thyroid antibodies so put on aspirin, heparin and steroids. These tests were expensive. Since then I've been looking into NK Cell tests (most are sent to the USA so hence the price). However, there is a clinic called SamedayDoctor 'www.SamedayDoctor.co.uk' and based in Manchester, London and some other places. They can do a simple NK Cell test for £395 plus £90 consultation or £450 + £90 consultation for a more detailed study which must then be evaluated by a fertility clinic. I think the latter goes into details of how aggressive the NK cells are (if present) and can then assess how much IVIg is required. You just telephone for an appointment and pop in.

We visited ARGC ..... yikes!!! Very expensive, they never once looked at my previous notes and wanted to repeat all the tests including my laparoscopy (we reckoned on it all costing around £12k as they charge for every blood test (sometimes do 2 in the same day) and every scan). We are based in North Wales so would have had to move me down to London for 15 days. We're now looking at Czech Republic and Hungary where costs are around £2k for ICSI and drugs. PragueBeauty even offers a package with flights and accomodation plus airport transfers and pick up to and from the clinic. We'd rather have a few tries abroad than grease the hands of ARGC (sorry just our opinions but we weren't impressed). Czech and Hungary don't do IVIg from what I've researched but I'm looking at that from the UK. Hungary does do heparin etc though confusingly said it isn't necessary for thyroid antibodies.

Hope this helps in any way. It's a complete mine field and I do think some clinics see our misery as a money spinner.

Take care and good luck

Smurfy xxx
Me=35, DH=58 May 07 ICSI = BFN, FET Aug 07 = BFN, April 08 ICSI = BFN, Jun 08 ICSI = BFN, JUL 08= miscarriage 3wks
Expecting Twins: IVF in Prague

kar1

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26

Tuesday, August 5th 2008, 12:07pm

i like the idea of a package price, you must let me know what it is

im going to liverpools womens hospital now for a endo biospy to access nk cells in the lining, this is what spills over to the blood steam so it seems sensible and also some ladies can have a negative nk cells and yet have them in the lining

im learning very quick lol
TTC 12 years

2 early losses

lots of ops and tx

both tubes removed

5th fresh short protocol
:BFP:

Tyler May born 5/5/2010 by emergency c section. Tyler is our sunshine

smurfy

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Reg: Jan 14th 2008

Location: Wales

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27

Tuesday, August 5th 2008, 2:52pm

Hi

I've posted some questions back to the Czech fertility clinic about the package and prices and will keep you posted.

Good luck with everything.

Love Smurfy xxxxx
Me=35, DH=58 May 07 ICSI = BFN, FET Aug 07 = BFN, April 08 ICSI = BFN, Jun 08 ICSI = BFN, JUL 08= miscarriage 3wks
Expecting Twins: IVF in Prague

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Reg: May 28th 2008

Location: Falkirk, Scotland

Children: one stepson ..& one miraculous wee boy!!!!!!!

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28

Tuesday, August 5th 2008, 10:36pm

Quoted

Originally posted by kar1
im going to liverpools womens hospital now for a endo biospy to access nk cells in the lining, this is what spills over to the blood steam so it seems sensible and also some ladies can have a negative nk cells and yet have them in the lining


Aw will you kep me posted - I'm supposed to be going there soon too - I haven't had any details through yet from Dr Quenby's secretary - so I'm a bit in the dark about what to expect - can you advise me on what you've been told???
Many thanks :-)
Vanessa


10 Losses:
Aug07@11wks
Oct07 Dec07 Mar08 & Apr08 - biochemical pregs
June08 @7wks (baby aspirin)
July08 & Aug08 - biochemical pregs
Oct08 @6wks (cyclogest)
Feb09 @6wks (cyclogest & baby aspirin)


...trying Traditional Chinese Medicine & accupuncture just now!



My Diary



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29

Wednesday, December 10th 2008, 6:07pm

hello sctoswife _ i haven"t been by in ages (mea maxima culpa) glad you"ve got plans for prague> i hope you have the same success as smurfy and that you are keeping well

take care
cherry c
Miracle Baby girl arrived 22 Aug 09. Still trying to adopt our little love in Zimbabwe
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