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  • "Diddle" started this thread

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Monday, June 22nd 2009, 9:22pm

Severe behaviour problems

HELP!!

I have 3 year old twins. Their behaviour is getting really unmanageable, my little boy isn't too bad, but my little girl is so naughty i just don't know what to do anymore.

Bed time is a nightmare, if i leave them they destroy the bedroom.

Is DD doesn't get her own way, she screams and lashes out kicking, pinching and slapping and saying innapropriate things "silly poo poo" Or "idiot" etc.

We do the naughty step, but she just laughs or screams in temper, we have taken things away, we have tried giving treats if they are good.

Anyone have any advice? I do end up losing my temper at times and really shouting and have smacked bums which i hate doing, but my own frustration takes over which i know i wrong.

PLEASE HELP.

Dids xx
Mum of 3 year old twins.
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Rose

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Monday, June 22nd 2009, 9:41pm

oh mate. You sound as though you're at the end of your tether. I struggle with one defiant 3 year old, so I really don't know how you've done as well as you have with 2!

It sounds like you've tried evrything to get through, but just a couple of thoughts-
Is her behaivour only bad at bedtime, or is it generally not good??
If it's just bedtime then maybe have a look at your nighttime routine- is she genuinly tired at bedtime, or maybe even overtired?? We sometimes have to go back to the odd sleep in the day ( perhaps once a week or so) just to catch up as I know T's behaviour def gets worse when he's tired.
Does S's behaivour affect B? Could you maybe try ( if you can ) ignoring S's tantrums and put all your efforts ( through gritted teeth probably) into spending time with B, reading, laughing and praising him for getting ready for bed nicely? It's a case of praising the good and ignoring the bad really- but I know you know all this already, so apologies if I'm sounding patronising.
Big hugs, Pm me if you want- I know a little of what you're going through
xx





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Monday, June 22nd 2009, 9:45pm

Thanks hun, the behaviour is all the time, but i find it harder at bed time. I do really praise b but he has started to copy her.

I have thought about putting them into seperate bedrooms but not so sure.

Also when i was out shopping the other day S kicked off because i wouldn't buy her anything in the shop, she ran off, nearly into a main road, then screamed rolling the floor, i had to pick her up and she pinched me that hard she has bruised my arm :sadface:

I just can't cope and just don't know what to do :bawl:
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Monday, June 22nd 2009, 9:46pm

also, we use the "counting to 3" thing sometimes. If T is playing up, not listening, throwing etc. We tell him that we sre going to count to 3, and that if he hasn;t listened/done what he's been asked/stopped hitting or whatever then he either goes stright on the step, or has one of his bets toys taken away. You have to be firm and follow it through and make sure she knows why you have done what youve done. It took a while with T but now when he's playing up i ofetn say " I'm going to start counting......." and often ( but not always he's done what i've asked before i've even got to one.





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Monday, June 22nd 2009, 9:49pm

Yeah we do 1,2,3 too, she just laughs in my face!! If i take something away she just screams and throws things or hits B. So then its onto the naughty step etc etc
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Monday, June 22nd 2009, 9:50pm

sorry cross posted.

Blimey she really is running you ragged isn;t she. You know this already but I'm guessing that she knows( jsut as every 3 year old does) exacetly what buttins to press and how to press them in you to get a reaction.
Seperate bedrooms might help- maybe worth a try, but I would be careful not to use that as a threat as that might fuel her fire even more.
I'm guessing you've tried sticker charts/stars/reward charts etc??

Also on another tac- whats her diet like? is there anything you could cut out of it that might be affecting her behaivour?





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Monday, June 22nd 2009, 9:53pm

I haven't done reward charts but i am planning on trying it!!

I am going to try and cut anything that might make them hyperactive out, but tbh they do eat fairly well. x
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Rose

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Monday, June 22nd 2009, 9:53pm

Maybe unless she's doing something unspeakably dangerous, then perhaps try ignoring her for a while. If she trashes her bedroom, then leave it. She's got to sleep in it, not you. Leave it till the morning, and once she's calm, make her tidy it up. Pretend your not bothered by her bad behaivour and see if it makes a difference??





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Monday, June 22nd 2009, 9:57pm

Yeah its the getting in the wardrobe and pulling every single item of clothing of the rails, and half pulling the blind off :sadface: that i can't ignore
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Monday, June 22nd 2009, 9:57pm

Have you tried sticker charts as rewards? Get some really snazzy stickers that she won't be able to resist. Sit down with both children, (as you'll have to include you little boy too) and explain that when they behave well, they will get a sticker to put on their chart. When they get so many stickers, they will get a treat. It doesn't have to be anything big. Whatever you do, don't take stickers away as a punishment though, as they will start to feel that it doesn't matter how many they win cos they will be taken away if they make a mistake.

Set out rules which you expect to be adhered to such as, if they misbehave, they will get one warning, and then no sticker. So if you're in the supermarket for instance and one of the kids starts acting out, give the warning in a clear way. If the behaviour continues, you say, right, there will be no sticker because you have done....If after the first warning the behaviour improves, reward with the sticker. Always reward the desired behaviour, and play down the undesirable, but always explain what it is that they've done wrong.

With any luck your little girl will be so enamoured with the big load of shiny stickers she gets and will start to respond to the praise. Hope this might help, and if you've tried it then sorry!!
Me 35,DH 36 (Severe Oligospermia.).
4th ICSI :BFP:
I have 4 lovely big kids
Thomas Derren (Thom) July 1990
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Harley John Oliver June 1997
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Monday, June 22nd 2009, 9:59pm

Thanks hun, i will try that. Should i have a list of things on the reward chart or just names and stars? xx
Mum of 3 year old twins.
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Rose

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Monday, June 22nd 2009, 10:05pm

Depends on what you want to achieve. Do you just want general good behaivour or more specific things??
With T, his reward stars are for staying in bed all night and not getting up at stupid o'clock :rolleyes:, so we have quite specific things, and he knows that when he's got a batch of stars he gets a small treat, which he loves.
However if you want general behaivour to improve you could give them a star whenever they've done something well ( have a chart each also so they can "compete") ie walked nicely round the supermarket, got ready for ved wothout a fuss etc, you don't have tp have a specific list as long as you've explained and really praised what they've done well.

xx





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Monday, June 22nd 2009, 10:07pm

I think that is best rose, give them stars for any good behaviour. Then say when you have 10? stars you can have a special treat e.g a magazine etc?
Mum of 3 year old twins.
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Rose

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Monday, June 22nd 2009, 10:10pm

Yep. We have a target of 10 stars. T is really into the Mr Men books at the moment, so we've brought the box set from amazon, and after 10 stars, he gets the next book in the series. Might take a while for him to get the whole series, but hopefully by then he'll have stopped getting out of bed!
Doesn;t matter what it is, just something that you know that they will really like, and be a (liitle) bit disappointed if they don't get it.





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Monday, June 22nd 2009, 10:10pm

We are going to try and make bed time a bit later too, cause maybe they aren't tired as sometimes its 9 o clock before they go to sleep. :sadface:
Mum of 3 year old twins.
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Monday, June 22nd 2009, 10:12pm

Thanks hun, so does T know what he is going to get then? I was gonna let them choose would that work too?

Thanks so much for listening i feel better just getting it off my chest xx
Mum of 3 year old twins.
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Monday, June 22nd 2009, 10:14pm

Great advice Rose! I agree completely. Any good behaviour should be rewarded to start with. you can be more specific when the kids are older. You need to keep this going for a good few weeks and don't be deterred if it takes a while to kick in. Be consistant, thats the main thing, if you said no to something yesterday, then you must say no to it today, and tomorrow. Try to stay calm too, (easier said than done I know!! Especially at tea time and bed time!) you will get accross to them that you mean what you say if you stay in control.

This phase doesn't last long I promise you, and your little girl is just testing the boundaries to see how far she can go.
Me 35,DH 36 (Severe Oligospermia.).
4th ICSI :BFP:
I have 4 lovely big kids
Thomas Derren (Thom) July 1990
Luke Benjamin August 1993
Harley John Oliver June 1997
Alexandria Aimee Jay (Alex) July 1998
Lochlan Cassius James April 2009 (4th attempt at ICSI)



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Monday, June 22nd 2009, 10:16pm

Be careful about making bedtime too late as this can exacerbate the problem too. The fact that they are in the same bedroom is probably what is keeping them awake so long. I shared a room with my sis all our childhood and sometimes we were still awake at midnight being idiots! Is there a possibility that you can give them their own rooms? I know it's nice for them to share, but sometimes, especially at this age it becomes a trigger for difficult behaviour.
Me 35,DH 36 (Severe Oligospermia.).
4th ICSI :BFP:
I have 4 lovely big kids
Thomas Derren (Thom) July 1990
Luke Benjamin August 1993
Harley John Oliver June 1997
Alexandria Aimee Jay (Alex) July 1998
Lochlan Cassius James April 2009 (4th attempt at ICSI)



Rose

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Monday, June 22nd 2009, 10:18pm

What time do they go to bed? Do they ever still sleep in the day?
I saw a programme on children and sleeping problems, and there was a 5(i think ) year old who was wide awake at 9-10 o'clock and having similar battles.
The sleep programme reccommended that her parents left her up as long as possible and only put her to bed at 11.30 ish when they were going to bed. On the first night of the late bedtime she was exhausted and fell stright to sleep with no fighting/arguing. THey kept the later beditme for a few days,a nd then gradually brought it forward by 15 minutes every couple of days ( I think) and by the time she was going to bed at a reasonable hour her bedtime tanturms had resolved.
I'm not suggesting that you out S&B to bed as late as that, but maybe putting them to bed when a little more tired may help them settle into a better night time routine, you can then gradully bring their bedtime forward to a normal time
You may also find that some of the problems in the day will resolve once they get a better nights sleep
x




This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Rose" (Jun 22nd 2009, 10:21pm)


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Tuesday, June 23rd 2009, 11:08am

Hey there....doing a star chart for my 3yr old just now! Bedtime and dinner are his problem areas so that's the 2 categories on his star chart. I am 99% sure his behaviour during the day is as a result of his mucking about at bedtime - until he was about 2.5 he was still in his cot, having 12 hrs sleep each night, plus 2hrs nap daytime, and he was a delight! He will no longer nap during the day.....just gets out of his bed if I try, and is taking too long to go to sleep, so only getting about 10/11 hrs per day, and it's obvious he needs more, so I am hoping this star chart sorts it out....good luck with yours too.x
Does DD stay asleep once she gets off to sleep?
Another FZ friend (Kate) recommended a fab book to me and reading it gave me a lot to think about - here's a link to it on amazon, in case you fancy having a read too.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Superpowers-Pare…n/dp/027371435X (not FZ endorsed).
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Tuesday, June 23rd 2009, 1:05pm

Hi Didds

Sorry to hear you are going through this hun. firstly huge :hugs: for you.

We have done reward charts with J and they have worked very well, he responds so much better to positive praise rather than being told off a lot.

Another option with the chart, rather than collect 10 stickers we have followed a Supernanny approach with a themed chart, usually a racing car track, where you move towards the finish line for good behaviour but also backwards if their behaviour is totally unacceptable so they know there are consequnces if they do something wrong.

I would also be specific with what you are dealing with as although she is a clever little one she is still young and may get confused when you just ask her to be good. Maybe do a "rules list" aka Supernanny targetting areas such as No Tantrums/ No Hurting Others/ No throwing stuff? Then when you have cracked those move onto anything else that needs dealing with.

Think yourself of several things they might like as a reward for reaching the end of the chart (within your price band), make a visual of these things and then give them a little responsibility by allowing them to select what they want to work towards.

I hope that helps a little, can you tell I've been there too :rolleyes:

xxx

Me - PCOS
DH - Poor Motility & Morphology........
ICSI 2001 - DS / 2009 - DD - Our family is now complete :) :)







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Wednesday, June 24th 2009, 8:04pm

Hi Girls,

Well we are in day two, things in the day are slightly better with less tantrums and lots of interaction and positive praise.

However nightimes are just as bad :sadface: We aren't going up and are letting them get on with it but its still late when they go to sleep.

Bed time was always about 6 and they used to sleep straight through till 7.30ish, we have extended it till 7, no they don't wake once they are gone, and they don't have nay sleeps in the day.

I am seriously thinking about putting them in seperate rooms but need to sort out the spare room as currently it is full of junk!!

We haven't quite managed to get a sticker on the chart yet, but to be honest i was doing if your good all day and i think as you say that is too general. We have asked them to go straight to sleep and they can have a sticker but they are still playing up.

I think tomorrow i will do more specific things and maybe if they achieve a sticker they will be more determined to get more.

dids xxx
Mum of 3 year old twins.
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Thursday, June 25th 2009, 12:46pm

Hi Didds

Bless you it can be hard enough with one so I can only imagine how you're coping with two.

Just a thought but when DS had sticker charts at school they used to break the day up into sections so getting a sticker was achievable, so maybe if you do 4 sections, morning, afternoon, evening and bedtime then they have a chance to achieve something, and get them interested in achieving more, if its for a whole day and they hardly ever achieve they will loose interest in the charts and they won't be effective for you.

:hugs: xxx

Me - PCOS
DH - Poor Motility & Morphology........
ICSI 2001 - DS / 2009 - DD - Our family is now complete :) :)







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Thursday, June 25th 2009, 9:24pm

Welll..................................... :D

We have 2 stickers on the chart and will have another in the morning!!!

They where in bed and asleep within 10 mins tonight :D :D

Had stickers for being good for nanny today, then because S is doing really well with her copying i just had to give her a sticker to encourage it, B isn't so good with his copying but he got a sticker for trying bless him!!

Bed time routine seems to be going well, after a bit of reading we have decided to bath, then straight into bedroom for pj's and a story. Going to stick to this so that it is normal and they hopefully get used to it and go straight to sleep.

Dids xx
Mum of 3 year old twins.
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Thursday, June 25th 2009, 9:30pm

Look how clever my little girl is....

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Thursday, June 25th 2009, 10:09pm

Aaawww. She IS clever.





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Thursday, June 25th 2009, 10:11pm

Thanks hun :D
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Thursday, June 25th 2009, 10:25pm

So glad it's working hun! It's such a relief when you realise that you CAN change things isn't it.

Just a thought on the stickers, can you try and give stickers for really little things that they do well too, so that at the end of the day they accumulate loads of them? Things like, picking up their pyjamas, putting their cereal bowls in the sink etc. It also encourages that desire to hlp you out too. It's always nice for them to see a great big cluster of shiny stickers cos it makes them feel that they have done LOADS of great things for you, and that in turn boosts self esteem.

It's fab that you are reaping the rewards already though. Keep up the good work mummy!
Me 35,DH 36 (Severe Oligospermia.).
4th ICSI :BFP:
I have 4 lovely big kids
Thomas Derren (Thom) July 1990
Luke Benjamin August 1993
Harley John Oliver June 1997
Alexandria Aimee Jay (Alex) July 1998
Lochlan Cassius James April 2009 (4th attempt at ICSI)


This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "mrs_smiff" (Jun 25th 2009, 10:26pm)


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Thursday, June 25th 2009, 10:29pm

Thanks hun, having a couple of stickers today has really egged them on so yeah i agree they do respond well!!! xx
Mum of 3 year old twins.
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Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get!!



mayo

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Friday, June 26th 2009, 10:29am

sounds like things are going well! We've had a couple of good nights in a row too thanks to stickers! It's funny how well they work; I remember, at primary school, being sooooo excited getting a star stuck on my jotter for good work! Teacher used normal, coloured stars for good work but reserved shiny gold/siver ones for really good stuff, so if we got one of those we we thought we were the bees knees :snigger:
Was just thinking.....something that was pointed out to me when my eldest was 2/3 was that, often you get into such a habit of saying 'no' and 'don't do...' but trying to keep everything in the positive form really helps - for example, instead of saying
"don't sit on the table" say "come down off the table please", etc - that way they are being given a chance to do something to change their behaviour and you can say well done or thanks, if they do as they've been asked (and maybe a star?) - sorry if this is something you already do....just something that helped me a bit.x
Mayo

baby boy born Aug. '03
baby boy born April '06
m/c June '07 at 5w
m/c Oct '07 at 6w
m/c Dec '07 at 4w 4d
baby boy born Dec '08
m/c March '10 at 6w


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Friday, June 26th 2009, 5:06pm

Well done you! Hope it's the start of happy times for you all
x





mayo

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Saturday, July 4th 2009, 6:57pm

Hey there....just wondered how you were getting on....this heat has put us back a few steps between it being too hot for H to get off to sleep and the older kids from our street playing outside, noisily, later than normal (summer hols).
Mayo

baby boy born Aug. '03
baby boy born April '06
m/c June '07 at 5w
m/c Oct '07 at 6w
m/c Dec '07 at 4w 4d
baby boy born Dec '08
m/c March '10 at 6w


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Wednesday, July 22nd 2009, 11:20am

Hiya, well all seems to be getting better, the promise of nice things seems to work! Plus i think we have all relaxed a little!! xx
Mum of 3 year old twins.
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Wednesday, July 22nd 2009, 12:54pm

Great news hun xxx

Me - PCOS
DH - Poor Motility & Morphology........
ICSI 2001 - DS / 2009 - DD - Our family is now complete :) :)










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