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l_ouise

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Monday, September 12th 2011, 11:28pm

14 healthy eggs but none fertilised - male factor?

Hello,

We had our first ICSI cycle recently and none of the eggs fertilised. It was devastating, mainly because they don't seem to expect it to improve.

I know there are similar instances where it seems that the eggs or stims were at fault or there weren't many eggs to start with, but we are working under the assumption that there is nothing wrong with the eggs as i am 26 and have no indication of any reproductive issues and there were lots of them.

Has anyone experienced the same and did it improve in future cycles? Did they offer you any treatments or proceedures or lifestyle suggestions that you feel made the difference?

I just need some glimmers of hope... one women had one child eventually but that was from 9 ICSI cycles ;(

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Tuesday, September 13th 2011, 2:43am

Hi Louise

I am so sorry to hear that happened.

I recently had a dramatic change in fertilisation results and embryo quality following taking Melatonin. There is a thread on here under immunuology. I also think people have seen improvements by DH taking vitamin supplements and some other bits too. Did the clinic provide any detail on egg quality or sperm quality? They should tell you some more detail on what happened. For me they never said there was an issue with egg quality but it certainly seemed to make a difference taking this extra med.

I'm sure someone will come along with more info on improving sperm quality. My DH just took a daily multivitamin.

Hope you get some answers soon.
6 cycles all BFN.
One last immune cycle - July 2011
06/12 - :girl:

Baby Isobel arrived on 16/04. Life is complete :hugs:

l_ouise

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Tuesday, September 13th 2011, 9:38am

Hiya Devchick, thanks a lot for your response :) Congratulations on your pregnancy!

I just looked up Melatonin and it can cause problems too, so i think that i'll hold of using it at this point but i'll definitely keep it in mind for the future if it's still as grim.

We have gone crazy on trying to improve hubby's sperm - heat, radiation, caffeine, alcohol, groin pressure, blood sugar, etc - are all being carefully monitored. However, when we mentioned our efforts to the consultant she was very dismissive.

We found a supplement called Pycnogenol that was recommended to me by a friend who thinks it helps her husbands sperm count that hubby is taking too but again the clinic told us not to take it and we have decided to ignore them.

I guess i just need to hear that these things can happen without spelling doom for our efforts to conceive...

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Tuesday, September 13th 2011, 10:53am

Hi Louise, I am sorry to hear that you had zero fertilisation. It is devastating. It happend to us on our first IVF cycle but our problem might have been slightly different - the sperm was not binding on the egg and ICSI seemed to resolve that problem for us.

14 eggs is a very good number and if you are saying that you had ICSI, which increases the chances of fertilisation as it makes it easier for the sperm, then I would be asking the consultant if he thinks that it could be a genetics problem. They could do a simple karyotype blood test (about £300) for you and your partner. That should gives you an indication if they is something else going on. There is also a FISH test, which can be done on sperm - that test then can select only the geneticly healthy sperm, which is then used for fertilisation.

Good diet and vitamines is a good start for improving sperm quality but I would be asking all the questions above as there might be a different issue and you don't want to be going around in circles especial if you have to pay for your treatments. Good luck hon xxx


MY DIARY

April'10-IVF 4 eggs-none fertilised
Sep'10-ICSI 2 eggs,1 fertilised 7/10/10 BFN
Jan'11-ICSI 13 eggs,9 fertilsed, 2x8 cells put back - 4/2/11 BFN
May'11-ICSI 14 eggs,9 fertilised - none made it to day 5
Aug'11-DE,Czech Rep 13/8 2 blasts trans,1 frostie - :BFP:
Scan 8/9/11,3/10/11,20/10/11,15/12/11,6/1/12,2/2/12, 2/3/12, 5/4/12 bab10 bab11
Twins arrived 8/4/12 both healthy

l_ouise

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Tuesday, September 13th 2011, 12:13pm

Thanks for your reply SunnyBee :)

Hubby did have a karyotype test that came back normal and the other tests the consultant said that we could have such as DNA fragmentation aren't conclusive and they could still only offer us ICSI so there is no point in having them.

I have never heard of the FISH test though, so i am very grateful for you mentioning it. I've just read that it can indicate if the sperm cells have too many or not enough chromosomes - do you know for definite that if there are any sperm with normal chromosome numbers that they can be picked out? Or will all the sperm cells be the same?

Thanks,

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Tuesday, September 13th 2011, 12:30pm

Louise that is how it was explained to us that the FISH test picks out the best / genetically healthy sperm, but we have not had did done at the end as they concluded we did not need it. Best would be to discuss it with your consultant, I am sure he will be familiar with the test.

It is a good news that DH Karyotype came back ok. I know it does not answer your questions but still an encouraging news.

Are you on the NHS or privately?


MY DIARY

April'10-IVF 4 eggs-none fertilised
Sep'10-ICSI 2 eggs,1 fertilised 7/10/10 BFN
Jan'11-ICSI 13 eggs,9 fertilsed, 2x8 cells put back - 4/2/11 BFN
May'11-ICSI 14 eggs,9 fertilised - none made it to day 5
Aug'11-DE,Czech Rep 13/8 2 blasts trans,1 frostie - :BFP:
Scan 8/9/11,3/10/11,20/10/11,15/12/11,6/1/12,2/2/12, 2/3/12, 5/4/12 bab10 bab11
Twins arrived 8/4/12 both healthy

l_ouise

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Tuesday, September 13th 2011, 7:21pm

I thought the karyotype results were promising too until the failed cycle then i didn't know what to think.

Which clinic discussed the FISH test with you? Apparently it isn't done in most clinics.

At the moment we are Nhs funded. We only got one cycle but the failed cycle was regarded as incomplete so we get to repeat it but after that we'll be privately funded. Fortunately we can afford a few goes, but hoping it doesn't come to that xfingers

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Tuesday, September 13th 2011, 7:58pm

Hi Louise, another of our members Cherlou had zero fertilisation on her first try but is now PUPO and on the 2WW, I'll send her a message and see if she can give you any advice.

Good Luck xx

6 x IVF, 3 x FET
3 x MMC, 3 x :BFN:, 1 x failed thaw
Two gorgeous boys.

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Tuesday, September 13th 2011, 9:18pm

Hi louise
I am sorry to read ur post. I had zero fertilisation from my first Ivf cycle back in may and was devastated. Felt worse than if I had got all the way through as felt I had been robbed of any chance. Pleased they didn't count it as the end of ur first go, my clinic did..which was crap. In terms of help it's hard as the advice we were given was to try ICSi as they seemed to think there was a problem with the egg and sperm binding together but not necessarily a prob with either sperm or egg. Last tues I had my EC and got 17 eggs and with ICSi 7 fertilised but then only 2were ok and then they said that my egg quality wasn't great. My fertilisation rate was very low. What have ur clinic advised? It sounds like ur DH is doing everything he can. I really hope ur second time brings more luck for u but just keep asking what they r going to do different. We were told on our last cycle that we were just very unlucky and that it would b unlikely to happen ok so maybe u might have more luck next time?
Sorry I haven't been more help but know that I am thinking of u and understand how devastating it is.
Take care
Cher xxxxxx :hugs:


Cherlous ICSI diary

5yrs TTC
Me 29 DH 30
QE Gateshead
1 IVF May 11 0 fert. :tears:
2 ICSi Sept 11 :BFN: :tears:
3 ICSI Jan 12 :BFN: :tears:
ARGC
4 ICSI Immune cycle (IVIG/Steroids) July 12 :BFN: :tears:
5 FET Oct :BFP: It's a :boy: and :girl:

7/6/13 Poppy Grace and Riley Lucas arrived : D We are so unbelievably blessed xxx

l_ouise

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Tuesday, September 13th 2011, 10:07pm

Thanks Curlytails :)

Cherlou, i really appreciate your response. I can totally relate to feeling like i've been robbed of any chance of having a baby. Progress is so important, even if it's just tiny, but for all the effort we couldn't even create an embryo. I'm not one to suffer with my nerves, but i can feel the anxiety building when i think about getting another one of those "I'm sorry. It's bad news." phonecalls.

My clinic haven't advised anything except repeating ICSI and having donor sperm, so it was pretty horrible. Me and hubby argued for a week after our review consultation because he felt he was being backed into a corner about giving up on him being a father.

I have been told that it can be quite luck based so it could be totally different next time but i find it really hard to find hope in that, especially when i can't find any examples of that actually happening. Just lots of repeat ICSI cycles with very low fertilisation rates... the only thing that keeps me going is believing that if i can just get an embryo inside that everything will be ok.

I'm so happy for you managing to have two tranferred and i really hope that you have a healthy 9 months of pregnancy, maybe with twins? xfingers

When is your OTD?

Cherlou

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Wednesday, September 14th 2011, 8:47am

It's the 22nd xfingers Not sure how I feel. Know what u mean about the phone call..this time round I felt sick waiting for the call. That m have been really hard for ur DH. I think whilst u still have another go it is worth having another try with his sperm as like u say, u only really need one to work and odds might go in ur favour this time. At least u will have given it ur best hane before considering other options. DH and I had to talk about possible donor eggs and it is a really hard conversation but if I had to I would consider it. Just keep talking to each other and stay united, this process is so hard and u need each other. When do u start again? It is such a long journey to get to EC..if ur like me..I really suffer with headaches from meds. U wanna feel like u r putting urself through that for a reason. I have everything crossed for u xfingers
Cher
Xxxxxx


Cherlous ICSI diary

5yrs TTC
Me 29 DH 30
QE Gateshead
1 IVF May 11 0 fert. :tears:
2 ICSi Sept 11 :BFN: :tears:
3 ICSI Jan 12 :BFN: :tears:
ARGC
4 ICSI Immune cycle (IVIG/Steroids) July 12 :BFN: :tears:
5 FET Oct :BFP: It's a :boy: and :girl:

7/6/13 Poppy Grace and Riley Lucas arrived : D We are so unbelievably blessed xxx

l_ouise

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Wednesday, September 14th 2011, 9:41am

Well, the best of luck for the 22nd xfingers

I would be the same, i'd use donor eggs if i had to, but hubby doesn't see it like that about donor sperm yet, so it's a sourse of conflict that we are just ignoring for the moment.

We start again on my next cd 21 :) My period has gone AWOL but i'm expecting it in the next day or two thanks to an unexpected positive OPK.

I didn't suffer with any symptoms from the meds except the odd hot flush, but it was hard watching the clock for injection time every day. I really hope it turns out better this time xx

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Wednesday, September 14th 2011, 3:57pm

Louise the clinic we were treated at was Wessex Fertility Unit in Southampton but I am not sure if they actually do it there or if they would have recomended us to go somewhere to have it done if needed.

You are lucky that you can get a repeat of your NHS cycle, we had to move straigth over to private after our zero fertilisation.

I believe you should be able to transfer you NHS funding to different clinic if needed but I am not sure how it is done. Fingers crossed it was just a bad luck and you get some lovely embryos on your next cycle. xfingers xfingers xfingers


MY DIARY

April'10-IVF 4 eggs-none fertilised
Sep'10-ICSI 2 eggs,1 fertilised 7/10/10 BFN
Jan'11-ICSI 13 eggs,9 fertilsed, 2x8 cells put back - 4/2/11 BFN
May'11-ICSI 14 eggs,9 fertilised - none made it to day 5
Aug'11-DE,Czech Rep 13/8 2 blasts trans,1 frostie - :BFP:
Scan 8/9/11,3/10/11,20/10/11,15/12/11,6/1/12,2/2/12, 2/3/12, 5/4/12 bab10 bab11
Twins arrived 8/4/12 both healthy

l_ouise

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Thursday, September 15th 2011, 9:13pm

Thank you SunnyBee :)

DeeBee

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Saturday, September 17th 2011, 2:40pm

Hi Louise - we have male factor problems too, and on our first ICSI cycle had low fertilisation. Our consultant at the time suggested going for IMSI if the 2nd cycle doesn't give good results. Not many clinics do this yet - IMSI is where they use a very powerful microscope to select the sperm - they can select better quality ones than through standard ICSI. Maybe worth looking into it. That said, on the second cycle we tried different stimms and the fertilisation was better - so this might make a difference too. Don't give up, and best of luck!!!
ME 33 & DH 35
TTC 2-3 YRS
1st ICSI Jan 2011 :BFN:
2nd ICSI Aug 2011 :BFP: xfingers xfingers xfingers

geomic

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Sunday, October 9th 2011, 3:49am

Hi,

Fingers crossed for your next cycle, Louise!

I'm sorry to hear your consultant wasn't supportive of all of the great things you and your DH are doing. Things like lifestyle changes, vitamins and antioxidants like Vit C can make a big difference and every little bit helps.

We had zero fertilization on our first go too. We have major male factor issues but because we were doing ICSI we really didn't expect for nothing to happen, it was such a horrible shock. This time around 3 of our 5 eggs fertilized (I'm a poor responder, so 5 eggs was a really good result for us). We did something called PICSI this time, which is a sperm selection technique. I think it is sometimes called H-ICSI or HA-ICSI too, the HA stands for hyaluronic acid. They coat a dish or slide with a chemical similar to the one that eggs are naturally coated in and then see which sperm bind to the chemical. I think the theory is that these are the sperm that would normally bind with an egg and so have the highest fertility potential and they are the ones that they use to inject into the eggs. It is a pretty new technique and I'm not sure how available it is in different countries, but it wasn't terribly expensive compared to everything else (a couple of hundred dollars I think - we haven't gotten the final bill yet).

We ended up going from no fertilization (admittedly with only a very few eggs) to having two good embies to transfer and one good one to freeze and the biggest difference in our treatment was the PICSI. It is all such a numbers game, so you never really know, but the PICSI might have been what made a difference for us.

I have heard good things about the IMSI that DeeBee mentioned too, sometimes PICSI and IMSI are used together to make sure that the very best sperm are used for injection.

Also, we did get the DNA testing done. Our specialist left it up to us whether we did it or not, because it is expensive and wouldn't change our treatment, but it did provide a lot of peace of mind when the results came back okay. Poor results (>15% fragmentation) on a DNA assay can mean that ICSI is less likely to work, but the good news is that DNA damage is something that can be improved with antioxidants and diet and lifestyle changes, and sounds like your DH is already on top of all that anyway.

My FS says that where there is sperm and eggs, there is hope!

Good luck!

Geomic

l_ouise

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Saturday, November 5th 2011, 1:56pm

Hello again :)

Well we are 2 days post egg collection, i had 14 eggs again and this time we had two fertilise but one had too many chromosomes so only the one left and just praying it makes it to day 3 which is tomorrow.

It's a grade 3 one but it is already 4 cell so the embryologist sais it's a good thing.

Thanks a lot for that PICSI suggestion - i'll look into it asap :)

We are actually considering saving loads of sperm samples and trying IVF instead - that might have the same result? I figured that the cost of saving so many sperm would be similar to what we'd save not having ICSI but normal IVF.

cloclo15

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Saturday, November 5th 2011, 4:19pm

Hi Louise, we have MFI too and my DH is also a type 1 diabetic. Although we got good fertilisation rates, all but two of the 14 embies we had left on day 4 keeled over and died on day 5. We were lucky we had one to transfer, but I am also concerned about sperm DNA quality and will ask about this. I did ask about the DNA frag test before we began but they said there wasn't much point to it, although I suppose it would give you more of a clue as to your odds. I am interested in some of the more advanced methods of selecting the sperm, but I don't think they do them at our clinic in Coventry, so would prob have to go further afield. If you find out anything I would be really interested to know what they say too.

l_ouise

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Wednesday, November 9th 2011, 6:47pm

My clinic also implies DNA fragmentation would be pointless.

Where can you get PICSI done in the UK?

l_ouise

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Monday, January 30th 2012, 7:34pm

Hiya everyone :)

Just an update.

We had ICSI #2 and pretty much same thing. 14 healthy eggs, only one fertilised but low quality and did not implant.

We are about to start ICSI # 3 but this time we are also having PICSI and IMSI and i also had immune bloodwork done and i seem to need steriods, clotting medication, intralipids and metformin. Speaking to the consultant about why i need all of the mentioned drugs tomorrow.

I'm also in touch with clinics about assisted oocyte activation too so hopefully not out of options yet xx

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Children: 1 beautiful daughter born 20.08.2012

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Thursday, February 2nd 2012, 8:05am

Hi hon, my DH have a very low sperm count and was told to take zinc tablets (with combined male reproductive vitamins) they increased his sperm count and quality dramatically and we fertilised 24!! The tablets were called zinc ace and you can buy them over the counter!!!! Good luck with your next cycle xxxxx

Me 31 :O , DH 29 88)
TTC 7 yrs
Eptc preg Aug 05 left tube removed
Clomid cycles 2009/2010 :BFN: every time
Nov 2011 1st ICSI Cycle with clexane injects for ANA
DH Low [zx151] Count & poor mobility
EC comp 03/12/11 :sticky:
OTD 19/12/2011 :BFN: - hospital error turns out its a :BFP: + 9 frozen!!!
20wk scan 04/04/2012 bab21 !!!!!!!

l_ouise

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Friday, February 3rd 2012, 10:03am

Hiya Shelley - congrats on the pregnancy :)

Hubby is already on a loads of supplements from Zita West. I just wish there was something we could try...

bells27

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Tuesday, June 16th 2015, 9:32pm

hello

i really wanted to re-activate this thread as this happened to us recently and i found it very hard to get any information.

as you will see from my stats - we had ivf in jan with 8 eggs and only one fertilised late on- bfn

we recently undertook icsi - 13 eggs NONE fertilised

the sperm head did not activate the egg so fertilisation did not occur - apparently it could be do to with a deficiency of protein Zelta - AOA can overcome this slightly

i really wish that i had done some reading to see that sometimes, for 3% of couples, that ICSI might not fertilise - i was dumbfounded! :thumbdown:
IVF - 8 eggs, 1 fertilised :BFN:
ICSI - 13 eggs - ZERO FERTILISATION - Looking into assisted oocyte activation&adoption :comp:

Bess

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Wednesday, June 17th 2015, 11:43pm

Bells, I am so sorry to hear this. You must have been devastated. I hope you are ok. Big hugs.
IVF 1 - m/c at 5 weeks
IVF 2&3 - BFN
FET1Sept 12- DS born May 13
FET2 Jan15 - mmc at 8 weeks 1 day ;(
IVF 4 Aug 15 - :BFP: woohoo :pray: :heart: seen at 8 and 10 weeks lurve babydust

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Tuesday, August 4th 2015, 4:49pm

We are now thinking of trying http://ivf-sunrise.net/service, which is said to help in this serious situation and as far as I understood doctors there should explain everything that's going on with you. The medicine doesn't remain the same it moves all the time and I hope there'll be some solution for all of us, who wants to have a baby that much...




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