FertilityZone

hi there

I have had a quick look at my Chicago level 2 results. My NK cells 50:1 were 13.9% and they like to see less than 15% so that in itself was not an issue, the problem though was that they then did not halve on the 25:1 and 12.5:1 which means they had strong killing power.

My CD3 was 85.8% (should not be more than 85) and my CD19 was 14.8 (should not be more than 10).

So get a full picture we really need to see all your results. My TNF cells were also raised. what were yours? We need a bit more information from you.

I was treated with steroids, intralipids and clexane (rather than aspirin as aspirin crosses the placenta). If your clinic is willing to treat you with these drugs I would certainly take them.

Hi honey,

part of the problem is that this is just an NK cell screen. It's not the full Chicago tests and there are lots of other things that can be wrong. To put it in context, I've had my NK cells tested 6 times now and they have always been normal. However, I have v high cytokines (another test that is part of the Chicago tests) and have had 3 BFNs even when on immune tx, partly because of the difficulty of interpreting blood results alone.
I now have tx for high NK cells (steroids and intralipids), despite the fact that my NK cells are always normal and despite the fact that the cytokine problem has been treated as well.

Who arranged the tests for you?

My opinion would be that if you go down the road of immune testing, you need to see a clinician who can properly interpret the results for you, in the context of your particular problems. Noone on here can interpret the results for you, as it needs to be done with a full doctor's understanding and in the context of your other reproductive problems.
There's a saying that I use all the time with clients at work. We treat the patient, not the blood results. So often I see cases where the blood results would suggest that the animal has serious health problems, but actually it's walking around perfectly happy. The corollary to that would be a patient like me who on paper has everything under control immune wise but has still had BFNs on tx, hence now giving me drugs that my blood results don't indicate. All we can do on here is use our own experience, which really bears no relation to what you are going through, or qoute you bits from Beer's book. None of that is a substitute for advice from a doctor who really knows what they are talking about.

I think either you need to see an immune doctor and have a full Chicago screen, then take recommendations based on that, or go with what your current doctor is suggesting, which is to give you a fair few of the immune meds anyway and hope that that does the job.

Hope that makes sense.

xxx

I would definitely go with what they are suggesting. The clexane and aspirin are both perfectly safe in the first trimester and there are loads of studies confirming that. The steroids are more controversial as they do have side effects. Part of the problem is that implantation is an inflammatory process and steroids are anti inflammatories so in theory steroids could affect implantation. Having said that there are a few clinics now that use low dose steroids routinely after transfer. Exeter are one of them and i spoke to one of the docs there a few months ago. She said that they haven't got enough results yet to be sure but it looks like it has slightly increased their success rates. It certainly hasn't reduced them. In view of the mildly elevated NK cells I think most immune clinics would definitely stick you on steroids. Because of the poss side effects my clinic are v anti a one size fits all approach to immunology and don't like clinics that just suggest clexane/aspirin/steroids in a sort of see what happens way. However they would always put you on pred or dexa with NK results like that, and that should be sufficient to bring them down.

If you go for the full Chicago tests they cost about £750 for the full screen. I presume your clinic could arrange it but again, without a doctor who really knows what they are talking about to interpret them and make treatment recommendations, you're not really any better off.

I think if your clinic are happy to do what they've currently suggested, i'd go with it.

xxxx

pred - prednisolone which is a steroid
dexa - dexamathasone (sp) also a steroid

The chicago tests wouldgive a better picture and you might also be prescriped Humira, Intralipids, IVIG, (LIT - not in this country though). This link might help.

link

also you should get Dr Beers book:

book

and read the immine section on this site:

immunes

You can have LIT in the UK now, Dr Gorgy has got a licence and Jenine is having it at the minute.
Basically as BG says there are loads of other meds you can have in all different combinations. If having the Chicago tests is financially an option I would have the whole lot done and get a proper immune opinion from a clinic who do a lot of immune stuff, but if for any reason you can't then I would go with what your clinic have currently suggested.

I tend to feel that if you're going down the immune route you may as well do it thoroughly. Chatterbox had a sort of half immune approach on her last cycle and is now going for a full immune tx at CARE as for her the half approach didn't work out.
It doesn't mean it won't for others though. The whole problem is that none of this is proven so no one can really tell you how significant any of it is.

xxx

Did I hear my name mentioned.... ?

Yep, tis true I prescribed myself a half ar$ed approach last time which got me further than ever before but it wasn't enough to ensure a healthy pg. I would definitely support Ruthie's comments on there isn't a one size fits all (although it may seem like it!) because you need to know that the tx protocol you're on has been thought about by someone who knows.

And even then it may take more than one stab at it. I'm not having LIT although I'm LAD -ve (as me and DH too similar anyway). But this is my only teensy worry - though IL's should sort that out too - in theory.

xxx

Hello

I hope it's ok to pop in here for help.. So nice to see your news Ruthie!

Results include: 0 CD57+ cells 3-4 FoxP3+ cells identified/high power field


Comment: No CD57 cells are identified. FoxP3+cells are adequate suggesting adequate stromal regulatory activity. Positive and negative control sections have been evaluated demonstrating appropriate tissue reactivity with the CD57 monoclonal antibody.






It sounds positive to me, does anyone know if it is?

Hi SugarBabyLove

don't know anything about the biopsies I'm afraid but my reading of that would be that they didn't find any NK cells and that has got to be good!
Are you going to see your cons about the results?

xxx

Hi sunny bee,

U am new to this site and found your thread interesting as i have a very similar cd69 test to your results and I wondered whether you proceeded with treatment?

Mine is 10.9% and I know it should be less than 10% to be normal.

Any advice you can give me on your experience would be greatly received.

Many thanks
Hope2608